Protecting Decals from TS13 Clearcoat

[Didymus]

Originally Posted by CrateCruncher

I have found DuPont's 2K clear is harmless and rock hard.

I've used it. It's great stuff if you want ultra super gloss, but I build old race cars, and they don't want to be that shiny. It's also really hard to strip off, and multiple coats don't blend into that single coating like lacquer does. Because of that characteristic, the lacquers are easy to patch. As you suggested, you get a seamless repair. But in my experience, there's no patching urethane. If you screw up, you have to repaint the whole car.

But your message does raise the excellent point that I may have thinned the TS13 too much. I like thin lacquer because it's easy to spray and it produces less paint build-up and less orange peel. But maybe I overdid it this time.

Of course, the urethanes are thinned too, with UR40 - at least that's the reducer that my auto paint supplier recommends, and it's what I use for urethane base coats. I don't know what UR40 is, chemically speaking, but it smells and acts a lot like lacquer thinner. It's my guess that if you thin urethane (like Dupont, PPG and Zero) way down with UR40, it will eat decals just like TS13 thinned way down with lacquer thinner.

Synthetic lacquers are so good in so many ways that I'm inclined to try work around the decal issue. Seems like the trick is to find the right consistency - thick enough to keep from dissolving the decals; thin enough to minimize OP. Assuming I don't just shoot the UPOL straight out of the can, that's what I'll shoot for on the next go-round.

Ddms

[CrateCruncher]

Everyone has a preference based on experiences, convenience and so on. The main thing I hoped to convey in my post is that these paints can be categorized into families based on their chemistry. Once you know the type you can make some predictions about how they will behave on models and decals and when combined with one another.

I have never used U-POL 1k but the pic SteveNoble posted shows that it is an acrylic paint so it shouldn't eat your decals even sprayed heavy in a 1:1 ratio like he suggested. Mr. Hobby Aqueous is also an acrylic and shouldn't hurt decals. But as always test first any time you try something new! They all have personalities.

I use DuPont ChromaClear 2K because it looks great and is durable. I shoot it with reducer 1:1 also and have never had a problem with decals. It is very shiney and I hardly have to polish at all when I shoot it reduced that thin. But it's fairly expensive and poisonous as hell (harmless to decals but can kill people!) because of isocyanates so a respirator is required. I use an old scuba tank and am sure I look ridiculous spraying.

Good luck.

[stevenoble]

Originally Posted by CrateCruncher

I have never used U-POL 1k but the pic Steve Noble posted shows that it is an acrylic paint so it shouldn't eat your decals even sprayed heavy in a 1:1 ratio like he suggested. Mr. Hobby Aqueous is also an acrylic and shouldn't hurt decals. But as always test first any time you try something new! They all have personalities.

It is an acrylic but more auto acrylic not like say Tamiya acrylic (water based) It's a lot stronger in both smell and potency, but essentially no where near as harmful to decals as the Tamiya TS-13 Clear. It's also a bit stronger than the 2K urethane clears, I would say. Maybe still go easy on the very heavy coats and build it up slowly.

[mrawl]

How about you just don't bother putting clear over your decals? Problem solved. Do they clear over sponsor signs and decals on real cars? I think not. It looks very toy-like and fake to me. Ok, ok, some decals should be cleared - decals that are simulating base-coat paints, maybe some others. And it protects them, but so should future or wax (I hope). Anyway, I know this is a religious issue, and many here vehemently disagree with this, and I'll probably end up chaning my mind for all I know, but it's worth keeping an open mind. I'll just say that I think well applied decals look very realistic with no clear over them - they look like they're painted on.

[Tibi Keke]

Mark, you are right. In many cases, the decals look much better if they are not cleared, but the problem is that this decals need a protection, if you have older kits you will understand why! The decals will yellow in time or they could simply crack over years! It's happened to me and i try to seal all the decals in my future projects equal if they are cars or airplains...

But regarding this topic, i really like very much Tamiya products, but this TS 13 is a monster! It eats not just the decals, sometimes attacks also the painting! I don't buy this stuff anymore, i go better with GS Mr. Hobby Top Coat or Tamiya X 22 acrilic clear. I am experimenting now also with automotive clear with hardener ( i think is a Dupont 2 K) and i am surpprised over the results. I must to make some test especially with Cartograf decals because this looks to be one of the most fragil on the market.

Regards,

[Didymus]

Originally Posted by mrawl

How about you just don't bother putting clear over your decals? Problem solved.

It's definitely an option for future models. You're right; the decals on 1:1 race cars aren't clear coated. I have to admit, though, that I like the uniform, finished look of a model that's been completely cleared, even though that's not 100% accurate.

Right now my problem is to finish this car, and I don't really have a choice. Most of its decals are already cleared.

I made a mistake and ordered UPOL clear lacquer in spray cans - I hadn't seen Steve's photos of the acrylic. (Rats! But on the other hand, the UPOL acrylic might not have blended very well with the TS13 syn lacquer that's already on the car.) I usually decant and thin TS13, but I'm thinking that excessive lacquer thinner was what dissolved the Cartograf decals. I'm also thinking I should wait overnight before applying successive coats. Maybe that will give the first coat a chance to cure a bit and protect the decals from the next onslaught.

So my inclination at this point is to spray the UPOL in mist coats directly from the can.

Ddms

[Didymus]

Received the two big 500 ml spray cans of U-POL Clearcoat from Sam Ditchek & Sons. Cost was $4.95 a can; totaling $18, including shipping via USPS. This is U-POL's 0804 synthetic lacquer, not the acrylic that Steve Noble mentioned. It's made in the UK.

http://yhst-13811118617756.stores.ya...uppocanae.html

So far I've sprayed two light coats directly from the can. It went over the Tamiya TS coat perfectly, with no decal problems whatsoever - whew! The nozzle is excellent - it puts out a very fine spray, almost a fog. I waited overnight before the second coat. Since I sprayed these coats light and dry, there's some fine orange peel.

I'll apply a wetter final coat tomorrow. Hopefully, that will produce even less orange peel. Even now, the OP is so fine that Tamiya Coarse Compound should do the trick with no need to wet-sand it. I'll get back to you in a few days about the polishing stage. As usual, I'm nervous about burning through the clear and ruining either the base coat or the decals.

Maybe I'll post some pix at that point. This 917 car body sure looks pretty in all its Gulf Oil splendor.

Ddms