What does your nation's flag mean to you?

[Prelewd]

The other day I saw three nice ass lifted chevrolets driving down the road, one behind the other. Each had a single 5 foot long American flag in their beds. The biggest smile came over my face.. I don't know what it came from. It was just a feeling of pure pride in my country. It, to me, is about belonging to, and taking part in one of the greatest countries that the history of man has ever seen. I know I will live out my American Dream, retire early and die happy.

I know that we have our problems, and I agree that we are losing our freedoms everyday, but this is because people are growing more and more uptight about things, and other people just sit back and take the shit given to them. Was street racing a big deal back in the 50s and 60s? Not as much as now. Why is that? You can't even spank your kid anymore. I know a few kids that could use a good lashing to keep them in line. We give and give and give, and people just keep getting greedier and greedier. If this doesn't makes sense to anyone, it's because there are too many things to try and say.

Despite our shortcomings, the good things certainly outweigh the bad, and I would die to ensure the freedom of generations to come. I also wish that the rest of the world could feel the freedom that I do. My flag is symbolic of my feelings.

[igor@af]

Originally posted by Toksin
Tex, I respect your opinion and thank you for at least asking politely for me to remove it, instead of ranting on and calling me a Saddam lover or whatever as I don't doubt some people will do, but like I said, I won't change my beliefs because someone challenges me. I'm sorry you're offended, but I'm offended by what your president is doing, therefore I am not going to change my sig.

Dave, I too kindly ask you that you do not demonstrate your political opinions in your signature - not because it is offending to many Americans, but because this IS the AUTOMOTIVEforums.com and I honestly don't see why you would want to have people see that image with every post you make throughout AF.
And, if you were to show your protest of Bush, then you should consider displaying an image that directly relates to Bush, and not the whole United States (you won't believe how many Americans ARE against this war). And also, remember, a lot of people say that Bush wasn't even elected by the majority, that his bro in Fla actually doctored the results and ensured Dubya's victory, which to me, seems very feasible and logical.

[1985_BMW318i]

Well the liberal democrat judges said otherwise a year later. Bush was elected legally but since it was so close people chose what they want to believe. Its ok though since I'm certain the next time when he IS once again proven to be elected legally they will come up with an excuse

[T4 Primera]

Toksin, please use your creative energies to find another way to express your viewpoint about Bush.

That flag may be on topic in this forum but it is inappropriate in the other forums which deal with things not related to politics.

[Jimster]

T4 PRimera and Igor-


*Channel Toksin* Okay,you've all made convincing arguments, and I must thank you for at least asking me respectfully to remove my sig, this could all too easily have crumbled into "remove your sig you anti american fucking asshat" or whatever. Also, since the owner of this site has also asked me to remove it, I guess I am going to have to. Igor says that I shouldn't have my political views at the end of every post I make, that's fine, but on those grounds I believe then that Yogs should also remove his anti-France quotes in his sig, but that's just nitpicking, I leave that to the rest of AF to decide. I will not apologise for my sig, and I will not change my beliefs, but I will remove the flag as soon as I am able to get into AF again and change my profile.

Dave *Channel Toksin*

[Jimster]

Now as for my countries falg- nothing really it's 3 stripes, one green, one white, one red



But as for my native country- I see the Union Jack as a strong reminder of who we have to tank for making NZ a civillised and great nation to live in- I see the Soutern Cross Constellation as seen from NZ and the blue background reminds me of how Kiwis are stuck in the middle of the ocean :o


But every time I look at it I personally am greatful for the freedom I was bought up with especially when there are so many nations suffering human injustices.

[Prelewd]

I would like to comment on one part of Toksin's sig. Although I don't agree with the upside down American flag, Technology is the replacement for displacement.

[Jimster]

Originally posted by Prelewd
I would like to comment on one part of Toksin's sig. Although I don't agree with the upside down American flag, Technology is the replacement for displacement.

This is not the thread nor forum to talk about it

[Prelewd]

I know, I just felt bad that Toksin was shut down for what he believes in, although the reasons for it occuring are correct.. Just wanted to make him feel better.

[taranaki]

Having lived under several flags,I don't tend to be overly attatched to any of them.To quote Samuel Johnson - Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

[1985_BMW318i]

I prefer this one from Thomas Jefferson

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." (November 13, 1787)

Or this one by James Monroe which can apply to those thinking the UN has political power over the US

The American continents . . . are henceforth not to be considered as subjects for future colonization by any European powers." (December 2, 1823)

Or this one by JFK

Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans, born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, proud of our ancient heritage, and unwilling to witness or permit the slow undoing of those human rights to which this nation has always been committed, and to which we are committed today at home and around the world. Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. . . . Let us never negotiate out of fear, but let us never fear to negotiate. . . . And so my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."

Or this one by Ulysses Grant

No terms except unconditional and immediate surrender can be accepted."

[YogsVR4]

I've been referred as many things around here, but most would agree I am at the forefront of standing up for the USA regardless of the politics of the administration (heck I even defended that sleezeball Clinton) With that said, I am not upset by Toskin’s upside down flag in his signature. I fully support what out flag stands for but it is only a symbol. Burn it, shit on it, call it all the names you want. It doesn't take away the fact it represents a strong willed and liberty loving people.

[Pick]

I am so sick of people saying America is arrogant. Igor, that is not true. Iraq is saying that they will kill all U.S. soldiers, we're saying will will keep their people from being killed. Who is being arrogant? America is only what people make it to be. One of the reasons for our ego is the fact that we have done so many good things for other countries, so we are arrogant. No, not true. We are not arrogant. France wasn't calling us arrogant when we saved their a$$ from Germany. Were we arrogant when we got our A$$ handed to us by North Vietnam? The fact is people are always gunning for you when you are on top, and this is no different. An age-old case of jealousy. America, in my opinion, will always be on top. This is not because we are bullies or greedy jerks, but because we are benevolent and giving.

[Diesel2NR]

Originally posted by Pick
I am so sick of people saying America is arrogant. Igor, that is not true. Iraq is saying that they will kill all U.S. soldiers, we're saying will will keep their people from being killed. Who is being arrogant? America is only what people make it to be. One of the reasons for our ego is the fact that we have done so many good things for other countries, so we are arrogant. No, not true. We are not arrogant. France wasn't calling us arrogant when we saved their a$$ from Germany. Were we arrogant when we got our A$$ handed to us by North Vietnam? The fact is people are always gunning for you when you are on top, and this is no different. An age-old case of jealousy. America, in my opinion, will always be on top. This is not because we are bullies or greedy jerks, but because we are benevolent and giving.

Pick, I actually agree with egor. It is not our right to shove democracy down everyone's throats. I do feel that it is still our responsibility to remove leaders by any means nessesary who allow their troops to punish them by raping them in so called "rape rooms". As far as shoving democracy onto them, we have no right. I do feel they should be liberated though and allowed to live better lives free from a man like Saddam.

Jimster, thanks for relaying that message to us and Toksin, thank you very much for agreeing to remove the flag from your signature. I would never ask you to change your beliefs about the US and will not try to change how you feel about our actions.

Yogs, the flag being upside down is just as bad as burning it, shitting on it, or anything else. I find it very disrespectful, but in our country, it is allowed to go on by law. I know a lot of people who have been in very bad fights over the nation's flag. Street fights that have landed them in jail. I am not sure how I would react to a flag being burnt in front of me, but I'd be pretty mad for sure.

[Pick]

Originally posted by 94 Mustang GT


Pick, I actually agree with egor. It is not our right to shove democracy down everyone's throats. I do feel that it is still our responsibility to remove leaders by any means nessesary who allow their troops to punish them by raping them in so called "rape rooms". As far as shoving democracy onto them, we have no right. I do feel they should be liberated though and allowed to live better lives free from a man like Saddam.

I would agree that what you and Igor said is true. But here's a question: what kind of government should Iraq install? I believe that some form of republic would be best. I don't belive that some form of socialism would work because of the differences in the classes in Iraq. I do believe that a capitalist society MAYBE would work ,but that is a big maybe, once again because of the amount of poor people in Iraq.