Need experience tech help with my car not getting spark or fuel

[Jag1980]

I tested the ECM Control Relay in picture one and I have power on the White/w Red stripe wire.
All the wires I can see looks pretty clean..

[Jag1980]

Originally Posted by shorod

According to the wiring diagram, battery voltage is supplied to the ECM for "memory power" via a 10-amp fuse in the engine compartment relay and fuse box, labeled "B/Alarm" and provides constant power to terminal 26 of the ECM, a red/black wire. The PCM should provide a ground to the ECM Control Relay coil from ECM terminal 27 (black/red wire) which in turn provides battery power to ECM terminal 54 (red/white wire). The white/red wire to the ECM Control relay, as well as the fuel pump relay, should be hot at all times via the 20-amp fusible link B in the Engine Compartment Relay and Fuse Box.

Check these voltages with key on and with key in Run position.

For what it's worth, the red/white wire from the ECM Control Relay also provides power to the fuel injectors, the idle speed control servo, and the Mass Air Flow sensor.

Oh, another thing to try since this seems to be somewhat intermittant would be to put the car in neutral and try to start it. If that works reliably, then the transmission range switch is likely faulty.

-Rod

Ok I will try that and get back to you.

Thank you

[Jag1980]

I checked the White w/Red stripe wire and it has power.
I also checked all the Red w/White stripe wires and they have power.
"B/Alarm" Fuse is N/A, nothing was ever there in that fuse port.
I tried starting in Neutral, nothing..

Should I check the Power Wires on the plug for the Computer also?
Is there a special way of testing this so I don't worry about frying it?
I heard some things you can fry from using a test light on them?
If I do need to check these wires, Can I do it with the computer unplugged or will it need to be plugged in?

[shorod]

The wiring diagram doesn't imply the B/Alarm fuse is optional. Maybe you should try putting a 10-amp fuse in there and see what happens. Also, make sure you have the fuse layout diagram oriented correctly and you're looking at the appropriate fuse location.

-Rod

[Jag1980]

I would have responded sooner but this forum stopped sending me email notifications when responses where made to this topic...

Anyway.
Here's the image of my fuse box.
As you can see in the picture they was never a fuse here or any metal inside to plug in a fuse. Not sure why, but this is what I got

[shorod]

What you're looking at there is a relay location, not a fuse. Granted, the naming convention matches what I listed in a previous post. I suspect what you're looking for would be the 10-amp fuse labeled "Burg Alarm B+" based off the cover photo above. Is there a fuse in that location, and is it good?

Did you try starting the car in neutral too? When the car doesn't start, do any of the bulbs in the instrument cluster perform their bulb test?

-Rod

[Jag1980]

Yes, all the fuses are good.
The bulb test works and check engine light stays on when the key is turned on.

I did try starting the car in neutral and the same thing happens, nothing..

[shorod]

Hmmm, the Check Engine Light gets its ground from the ECM, so if it's lighting, the ECM is likely getting power....

You're probably to the point where you need to get a professional involved, or if you're comfortable using a multimeter, getting yourself a service manual/wiring diagram for your car and tracing wires to make sure you have power where you should have power and ground where you should have ground. It looks like you should be able to access the wiring diagrams for free electronically at Autozone's repair information site (Repair Info -> Chassis Electrical -> Wiring Diagrams).

-Rod

[Jag1980]

Originally Posted by shorod

Hmmm, the Check Engine Light gets its ground from the ECM, so if it's lighting, the ECM is likely getting power....

You're probably to the point where you need to get a professional involved, or if you're comfortable using a multimeter, getting yourself a service manual/wiring diagram for your car and tracing wires to make sure you have power where you should have power and ground where you should have ground. It looks like you should be able to access the wiring diagrams for free electronically at Autozone's repair information site (Repair Info -> Chassis Electrical -> Wiring Diagrams).

-Rod

I always get the hard to figure out problems..
Thank you for your help, very much appreciated.
At least know what is working and can move on to others things to help get myself closer to what the problem could be.
Hyundai has all the wire Diagrams on their website which is very nice of them to do

I don't really have much experience in tracing wires at all and I haven't learned how to read wiring diagrams yet, but I guess now is the time to learn

If anything ever comes to mind on what it might be please post, I really don't have a clue until I start testing.
Thank you for your time

I will post back here when I do get the problem solved

[shorod]

Originally Posted by Jag1980

Hyundai has all the wire Diagrams on their website which is very nice of them to do

That is awesome! Too bad more manufacturers don't do that!!!

Feel free to post back as you rule additional items out or just as you get more data. Maybe eventually something will click with one of the readers.

-Rod

[Jag1980]

I was talking with another mechanic the other day and he said it could be the Ignition switch? Sometimes they get coated with carbon and prevent power from making a proper connection.

Could this be a possibility?

[shorod]

I suppose that's possible. With the wiring diagrams you should be able to easily test that out.

-Rod

[mike23462]

Please excuse me if this post was handled incorrectly but this is the first time I have ever used one of these forum sites and I'm not too sure of proper etiquette here.

I have a 1996 Hyundai Elantra wagon DOHC 1.8L.

I also am having a serious problem with my Elantra that sounds just like yours. Two weeks ago while driving home I came to a stoplight and my vehicle died. I had never had problems with it before. I tried to re-start it but it wouldn't start so I pushed it into a parking lot so I could come back later with tools.

When I came back about 2 hours later the vehicle started right up and ran fine. It continued to run fine for 2 days when it again died at a traffic light. I again pushed it into a parking lot and returned later with tools.

This time it did not start right up. The first thing I checked was the fuel pump. It was not pumping so I thought I had a bad pump. Further inspection showed that I had no power to the pump but the guage was working properly. I tried running a hot wire to the pump to cause it to pump fuel just so I could get it home but then found that I had not spark at the plugs.

I looked at the schematics in the Chilton's manual and Hayne's manual and found the ECM relay but couldn't find the relay in the car until I saw the photos on this thread. That is when I relized it was right behind that little panel directly below the steering column. I think something I read also called it a MFI relay. I replaced it and found that it was deffinately one of the problems with my vehicle. The coil side of the relay was apparently burned open. With the new relay in place I now hear it click when I turn the key to the run position. The engine still turns over when I turn the key to start but the engine doesn't start. I will be checking the cam and crank sensors next but not sure when as I need help to check them and with the vehicle not in my yard it is hard to find time to work on the car with the other distractions (wife, kids, two dogs, work, etc...).

I will keep you posted on what I find out and hope you can do the same for me. It sounds like we both might have the same problem.

[Jag1980]

Sounds pretty much like the same problem as mine, only difference it seems is that my car only failed to start after I parked and shut off the car, not while driving. I drove it 10 miles in perfect running condition.

I'm thinking crank sensor, but really not sure.
I'm going to charge my jump box since my battery died and if I can get my car to start up again, I will probably change the crank sensor and hope it fixes it.

Let me know when you change any parts on your car and the results you get and I will do the same

[mike23462]

Sounds good. As much as I need to get my car up and running I hope you can do the same. I love my little car. I was really hitting on some hard times when a neighbor gave it to me. I've been driving it for about 6 months and haven't had a single problem with it until now. I guess this is making up for it.

Just curious did you ever check that ECM relay. You can do it with an Ohm meter. Those stupid things are kind of expensive new. I got mine from a junk yard for $4.08. The relay is easy to test. There is a schematic on the top of the relay. You should get a reading on your ohm meter showing 2 good paths through that relay and pin 30 should not be shorted to any of the other prongs. That is with the relay removed from the vehicle and no electricity applied.