US soldiers found a Chemical Factory in Iraq

[Pick]

Originally posted by Milliardo
It's premature, as the story reported. Remember that Iraq has said the chemicals they have are for industrial, not military, purposes.

Then wasn't it kind of premature for the anti-war supporters to say that there was no biological or chemical weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. How did they know???? We'll never know....

[YogsVR4]

Originally posted by Milliardo


China has long left that state wherein the military is in full control, to a now more open, market-oriented society. Such is not the case with Iraq, thus ownership, or at least overseeing, facilities, is done by the military. Saddam is only following an old and simple rule: keep your military happy in order to stay in power. If he didn't, he would've been long deposed by a very discontented military.

Incorrect. In China, the military has control over a large portion of their industry. The fact they are going to a more open market is causing strife with the military because the goverment wants to take control away.

[Milliardo]

Originally posted by Pick
Then wasn't it kind of premature for the anti-war supporters to say that there was no biological or chemical weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. How did they know???? We'll never know....

No anti-war protester has concluded that Saddam doesn't have bio weapons. The issue was to let U.N. inspectors have more time in looking for them. Though for the record, it has been almost a week, and U.S. forces there have yet to find such things that are used for war.

And thanks, Yugs, you just confirmed that the military does still have control of a large portion of China. There you go, GTi. I guess that's another example of a country which as the military in control of almost all aspects of industry, and a country on its way, if not already, to a market-oriented economy.

[rsxer45]

Originally posted by Milliardo


No anti-war protester has concluded that Saddam doesn't have bio weapons. The issue was to let U.N. inspectors have more time in looking for them. Though for the record, it has been almost a week, and U.S. forces there have yet to find such things that are used for war.

No, we didn't find any weapons of mass destruction yet, but don't you find a lot of the things we are finding odd?? In that hospital in Nasiriyah, US troops found 3000+ chemical suits a long with 172 Iraqi troops. What praytell would the Iraqi soldiers need the chemical suits for. Hmm, I wonder. What about the intel. reports that the Iraqi leadership has authorized the use of chemical weapons on coalition forces once they cross the line between Karbola and Baghdad (I not sure if these are the correct cities mentioned in the intel report). Then there is that chemical factory and those SCUDs... In short, nothing has been confirmed about the presence of WMD in Iraq but all this looks so suspicious. And, I wouldn't expect the US soldiers to find chem weapons during the first five days of war anyway, unless the Iraqi gov't stupidly left hem out in the open or something were the US soldiers could easily spot them. But, I doubt that since the UN inspectors weren't even able to find these types of weapons out in the open. I think Iraq would do a much better job hiding these weapons than that. Once the US has taken control of Iraq, then the search process for WMD will begin and that's when I think WMD will be found. Centcom believes that much of the WMD are stored in Baghdad anyway, so we will see which country is telling the truth when that time comes.

[Milliardo]

Originally posted by rsxer45
No, we didn't find any weapons of mass destruction yet, but don't you find a lot of the things we are finding odd?? In that hospital in Nasiriyah, US troops found 3000+ chemical suits a long with 172 Iraqi troops.

It's a hospital, they're supposed to be prepared, and having Iraqi troops there at this time isn't odd...unless you think Iraqis will just give up any vital installation they have.

What praytell would the Iraqi soldiers need the chemical suits for.

They're prepared for war. U.S. troops have chemical weapons suits with them; does that mean the U.S. have those weapons (that's just rhetorical, though anyone with any sense knows they're still stocked somewhere).

What about the intel. reports that the Iraqi leadership has authorized the use of chemical weapons on coalition forces once they cross the line between Karbola and Baghdad (I not sure if these are the correct cities mentioned in the intel report).

Intelligence reports are still subject for verification. Such reports are only gathered from field agents, but most of these reports have yet to be verified.

Then there is that chemical factory and those SCUDs... In short, nothing has been confirmed about the presence of WMD in Iraq but all this looks so suspicious.

Nothing is confirmed, so that should be that. Until there is solid evidence, then all we have are speculations. We've discussed about the factory here, as well as the Scuds in another thread.

And, I wouldn't expect the US soldiers to find chem weapons during the first five days of war anyway, unless the Iraqi gov't stupidly left hem out in the open or something were the US soldiers could easily spot them.

Wasn't the U.S. government charging that the U.N. should've found those weapons when "intelligence" has it that there are such weapons? How come they suddenly can't be found? Shouldn't it be that, since U.S. "intelligence" have supposedly found them, the first thing the U.S. military should've done was to secure those facilities? Why is it that the U.S. is searching for it now? Ooppss--Bush's advisers seem to have made a mistake, and let that loophole slip. So far no American seems to have thought of that...

[1985_BMW318i]

Wasn't the U.S. government charging that the U.N. should've found those weapons when "intelligence" has it that there are such weapons? How come they suddenly can't be found? Shouldn't it be that, since U.S. "intelligence" have supposedly found them, the first thing the U.S. military should've done was to secure those facilities? Why is it that the U.S. is searching for it now? Ooppss--Bush's advisers seem to have made a mistake, and let that loophole slip. So far no American seems to have thought of that...

Milliardo you are so obviously Antiamerican its getting funny. You always seem to turn whats obvious to the majority of others around to where it fits your way of thinking. I'm beginning to wonder if you actually Saddam's buttbuddy. Do you know how many of Iraqi's he's killed? Do you know how many times the UN has issued sanctions against him? Do you know that his own people have attemped to kill him and his sons? Do you have a clue about anything other then the lunitic ravings going on in your own mind?

[rsxer45]

Originally posted by Milliardo


It's a hospital, they're supposed to be prepared, and having Iraqi troops there at this time isn't odd...unless you think Iraqis will just give up any vital installation they have.

Prepared for what....a US chemical attack??? I think not. Why would US troops use chemical weapons during a war, whose purpose according to the US is to remove these weapons of mass destruction. Be logical here. If there is a chemical attack it is going to be from the Iraqi's and not the Americans. The hospital didn't even have any patients there so who will they protect with the chemical suits??? In my opinion, the Iraqi soldiers brought these suits there with the intent on using chemical weapons in the near future.

ps-Let's say you are right and the hospital has these suits here to be prepared. Then, obviously the Iraqi people themselves don't have much trust in there own gov't. Something fishy is going on that is looking more and more like the Iraqis are lying about the these chemical weapons.

In response to your other comments, I would like to reaffirm that it has only been FIVE DAYS since this war has started. I think the main objective of the US military is to overthrow the regime first before searching for these weapons. You can't start searching for WMD when you still have large pockets of heavy resistance out to fight you. I don't mean to sound insulting in any of my comments, but you have to see some of the logic here.

Finally, I agree with you that nothing is confirmed yet, and all my comments are speculation. But, on the same note I don't want to hold all of these non-confirmed events in an apathetic light just because they aren't "smoking guns" for a fear of deluding myself. Let's be realistic here.

[Milliardo]

Originally posted by rsxer45
Prepared for what....a US chemical attack??? I think not.

In any eventuality, it helps to be prepared. Even Israel have chemical suits.

Why would US troops use chemical weapons during a war, whose purpose according to the US is to remove these weapons of mass destruction.

Nope, didn't say the U.S. brought their chemical weapons with them. But maybe you must be confirming it for us, which we'll gladly accept as an admission that the U.S. does stock chemical weapons.

The hospital didn't even have any patients there so who will they protect with the chemical suits??? In my opinion, the Iraqi soldiers brought these suits there will possible intent on using chemical weapons in the near future.

They're being prepared for anything. It's not only the U.S. that is after Iraq; there's next door neighbor Iran. Plus, like I said, just like Israel they're most likely preparing for any eventuality.

Let's say you are right and the hospital has these suits here to be prepared. Then, obviously the Iraqi people themselves don't have much trust in there own gov't.

Wow, we already jumped to the conclusion that Saddam is going to use chemical weapons. What made you suddenly better than the U.N.?

In response to your other comments, I would like to reaffirm that it has only been FIVE DAYS since this war has started.

If it's just been five days, then why did you already jump to the conclusion above that Iraq has chemical weapons?

I think the main objective of the US military is to overthrow the regime first before searching for these weapons.

The justice system holds that you first find a defendant guilty beyond reasonable doubt before passing the sentence, not to first sentence the person and later on look for the evidence. It seems the U.S. is bent on simply taking Saddam out, then, whether he has WMDs or not.

[rsxer45]

I give up. To me, Millardo it seems like you have abandoned logic for hate. Everything you said defies common sense and the only conclusion I can come up with is that you have some sort of seed of hatred towards the US. I myself am proud to be an American, but I don't let my emotions get in the way of logic. But, I guess these are your opinions, and you are entitled to them...and I shall respect that.

[Prelewd]

This still doesn't address why there was a General at a chemical plant. Now a general is a very high ranking official right? During a war, why wouldn't he be at some command center commanding troops? Also, why would a chemical plant need to be run during a war if there is no need for chemical weapons. I'm sure the iraqi people aren't worried about their lawns being fertilized right now, if they even have grass over there.. And even if their lawn does need fertilized, they can just use all the civilians we are supposedly killing on purpose.

[Milliardo]

Originally posted by rsxer45
I give up. To me, Millardo it seems like you have abandoned logic for hate. Everything you said defies common sense and the only conclusion I can come up with is that you have some sort of seed of hatred towards the US. I myself am proud to be an American, but I don't let my emotions get in the way of logic. But, I guess these are your opinions, and you are entitled to them...and I shall respect that.

I believe with your contradiction, first saying that there must be some sort of evidence of chemical weapons, then in the same paragraph say that there is yet no solid proof of it, that you have lost logic. I have given you all logic presented thus: what is wrong with chemical suits in a hospital? A hospital is where you must be prepared at all time, and to assist in the wounded, doctors and nurses must first take care of themselves. That means all necessary means of protection must be present there, much more than on a battlefield.

Now a general is a very high ranking official right? During a war, why wouldn't he be at some command center commanding troops?

Not all generals are in front of troops. As it fits their commander-in-chief's wishes, generals are to stay in their posts until called for.

Also, why would a chemical plant need to be run during a war if there is no need for chemical weapons.

As I read the news, the chemical plant seems to be there even before the war, so it is logical that it should still be up and running even if there is war.

I'm sure the iraqi people aren't worried about their lawns being fertilized right now, if they even have grass over there.

.

Perhaps you have not considered that these chemicals can be exported, and used for other industrial purposes? If I am not mistaken, we have not even been told what sort of chemicals are made there, and there are so many more chemicals made for industrial purposes only.

[T4 Primera]

Before pointing the finger at a SUSPECTED chemical weapons plant, what about the hundreds of tons of depleted uranium that the allies scattered across Iraq during Desert Storm...and Afghanistan for that matter.

That stuff is radioactive, causes cancer and poisons the land sea and air.

In case you are wondering, depleted uranium is used as a cheaper alternative to tungsten for the tips of cruise missiles, tank shells and gatling gun rounds for the A10 and Apache.

Does anyone know if the allies are still using it this time around? Otherwise the pretense of minimising civilian casualties is a joke, the casualties will continue long after the war is over as people get sick from being poisoned by this stuff.

[rsxer45]

Originally posted by Milliardo


In any eventuality, it helps to be prepared. Even Israel have chemical suits.

Im surprised you didn't put a smiley face after this statement Milliardo. You know you are so blinded by your hate for the United States. From a political standpoint, for the US to use chemical weapons in this war would be suicide and any logical person would realize that. And this hospital is a military hospital that was being used as refeuling point for Iraqi troops, where weapons and these suits were stockpiled. The Iraqi leadership knows that the US would not use chemical weapons in this war (because the whole world would take action against such a travesty), so for WHAT OTHER PURPOSE DO YOU THINK THE 3000+ CHEMICAL SUITS ARE FOR. How many hospitals in other countries are stockpiled with 3000+ suits to be prepared? Nothing you have said has been convincing at all.

Oh, and T4 where did you get your info? Not all uranium is radioactive you know. Other isotopes like U235, which is very rare and expensive, are the radioactive ones. U238, which is the most abundant isotope barely decays, and therefore doesn't give off that much radiation. I think U238 makes up about 98% of the natural uranium on earth, which would make it the cheaper alternative. Did you also know that the M1 Abrams tanks are plated with U238? If U238 were that radioactive, I don't think the US soldiers would last that long? I highly doubt that the US would use U235 to tip their missiles, becuase that would make every missile a dirty bomb.

[Prelewd]

Originally posted by T4 Primera
Before pointing the finger at a SUSPECTED chemical weapons plant, what about the hundreds of tons of depleted uranium that the allies scattered across Iraq during Desert Storm...and Afghanistan for that matter.

That stuff is radioactive, causes cancer and poisons the land sea and air.

In case you are wondering, depleted uranium is used as a cheaper alternative to tungsten for the tips of cruise missiles, tank shells and gatling gun rounds for the A10 and Apache.

Does anyone know if the allies are still using it this time around? Otherwise the pretense of minimising civilian casualties is a joke, the casualties will continue long after the war is over as people get sick from being poisoned by this stuff.

T4, this is off topic. Start a new thread about this one. It sounds like you are trying to shift the attention from the chem plant to what the US is doing wrong. I'm not suprised though..

Milliardo, your hairball excuses for defending Iraq frustrate me. In war you have to assume the worst, and hope for the best.

As for the hospital suits, I would think not having them would be more of a sign that Saddam has chemical weapons because having suits shows he cares a little bit about his people, and that is just out of the norm... kind of like a military general at a chem plant.

[Pick]

Originally posted by Milliardo


No anti-war protester has concluded that Saddam doesn't have bio weapons. The issue was to let U.N. inspectors have more time in looking for them. Though for the record, it has been almost a week, and U.S. forces there have yet to find such things that are used for war.

And thanks, Yugs, you just confirmed that the military does still have control of a large portion of China. There you go, GTi. I guess that's another example of a country which as the military in control of almost all aspects of industry, and a country on its way, if not already, to a market-oriented economy.

They haven't? They said that we had no evidence of anything nor did Saddam have any weapons of mass destruction. They WERE premature in saying that. ANd the U.N. inspectors weren't going to find shit. They were there for 3(?) or 4 months and found nothing except false documents. We found a 100 acre chemical plant. How did they miss it? Here's how: They weren't looking.