Jaguar R4 launch pictures

[Guido]

Originally posted by crayzayjay
sorry, i didnt mean that as an offence. i mean, what could you possibly know about the car just by looking at it or reading the useless press stuff

I'd mind what I write the next time round buddy IIWY

You never know who is on the other line. Maybe it's an engineer and maybe he's a specialist in aerodynamics or something and in fact HAS a clue what he is talking about... It's not because you don't - I guess, but can be wrong here - that others don't either, if you knwo what I mean.

If one is into the technical details of F-1 he could actually tell from an aero point of view if it looks promising or not. Powerwise it's an other story of course. I think this years Jags looks far more promising that last years. If it's going to deliver will also depend on the job the people at Cosworth did.

[crayzayjay]

1) I wholeheartedly disagree. F1 veterans, most recently Patrick Head, have said they can't look at a car and gather information about the aerodynamics because it's simply too complicated these days. If for one second i thought you could gather enough information from looking at these pictures to be able to assess whether the car will be good or not i wouldnt have made such a comment. But you cant, so i did.

I mean, look at it this way.. in the cutthroat business that is F1 today, why would any team want to show their car before ANY OTHER TEAM if that would give much away?

2) Whats IIWY?

[Guido]

1) Why is it then that teams restrict more and more access to 'top illustrators' like Giordano and photographers like me... Because designs are so complex, no one can figure it out anyway?? I don't think so. Photographers used to have access to nearly everything until 10 years ago or so. Nowadays, they cover nearly everything and sometimes when we come to close, they chase us away, litteraly.

But then again, you always know better, don't you?

2) If I Where You

[Guido]

Originally posted by crayzayjay
[b]1)
I mean, look at it this way.. in the cutthroat business that is F1 today, why would any team want to show their car before ANY OTHER TEAM if that would give much away?

For the sake of the sponsors hence the show they build around it, to name one of the reasons.

[ales]

Great, another argument starting over nothing!

It was me who suggested not to take Scott's post too seriously as, based on his previous posts, he didn't seem too knowledgeable at all and also left an impression of a post-whore - someone who posts merely to rack up the numbers in the post count. Though lately he's starting to behave better - at times.

And no, a 16-17 year old will not e able to tell if the car wil be fast just by looking at it. Hell, Jaguar team didn't know what was wrong with their car after they designed that boat in the first place.

Alex

[ales]

Originally posted by huudo


For the sake of the sponsors hence the show they build around it, to name one of the reasons.

Guido, surely you've noticed that presentation cars are not exactly the same as the cars used at the first race.

Besides, for the sponsors' sake Williams went as far as "presenting the livery" - the 2001 car in the 2002 colours.

[crayzayjay]

But then again, you always know better, don't you?

just one thing, can you stop making this personal?

Teams cover up their rear wings etc so that photographers dont come right up and take close snaps as that might reveal a little more than the team would like to, just like you said. The type of pictures that docome out dont reveal any big secrets, i mean look at the ones on the link.. what have we figured out? the car's green... hmmm..... interesting.... of course the team isnt going to reveal any big "secrets".. thats why we cant tell a lot about the car. did you completely ignore what i said about patrick head, and he was just one of many, or do you know better than him?

Do you think pleasing the sponsors by revealing your car months ahead of the start of the season and in doing so hurting your performance is worth it? and do you think the sponsors are stupid enough not to know this?

[crayzayjay]

Alex, theres really no point closing the thread, we're both presenting our case and one of us will prove to have been wrong. And in doing so, we wil find out if someone can find out anything valuable about an F1 car at launch

[ales]

I am not closing the thread just yet, providing it doesn't sink to personal attacks on any side.

I was presenting my arguments as well, which I hope anyone will comment on. If you want to haeva discussion between just the two of you - use private messages or emails or whatever.

[ales]

Just what exactly are you arguing about, BTW?

Whether Scott02 could tell how fast the car is by looking at the pictures? Or whether it's possible by anyone to know how fast the car is by looking at presentation pictures?

[crayzayjay]

We are discussing whether you can tell if a car is competitive in a certain area or not by looking at the pictures, i.e. aerodynamics. I questioned whether Scott could find out anything worthwhile about the car's competitiveness by looking at the pictures or reading the press release, and although Scott didnt mind, Huudo seemed to object. We are putting forwards our arguments, nothing animal going on :hehe:

[ales]

My view: if the people who designed the car have just an idea how competitive their car will be, I doubt anyone can. Unless they designed the R2 to be slow. IMO, not too much to argue about, but oh well.

[crayzayjay]

Precisely. Why would you throw away whatever advantage you may have before the season has even begun? If anyone wants to dispute that let them try

[Scott 02]

And no, a 16-17 year old will not e able to tell if the car wil be fast just by looking at it. Hell, Jaguar team didn't know what was wrong with their car after they designed that boat in the first place.

Alex, do you think i just looked at the car and thought i would blow off some shit i don't know. I been around racing for a long time and do it myself now. I race with full size cars with grown men. I read up on nascar/indy/F1.....ect articles all the time. When i said what i said it was probably something i have read somewere what stated that. So what do you know about this car?

Acceleration times can't be quoted for F1 cars. Besides with similar gearing they'd all be way too close for a number to be relevant on its own, if at all.

Thank you crayzayjay. That was just my point.

[Guido]

OK, just to clear some air in here

The only thing I was trying to say, is to be carefull on what you write about others or before you start questioning their knowledge, unless you know them in person. I checked Scott's profile before I replied and saw he's a race driver, so I think he knows more about it them my little humbleness. Scott's reply says enough on this I think.

If you re-read my post, I didn't made any comments on how good the car will be except that it "looks" promising, and to my knowledge that is something else then "is" promising. Furthermore I was only suggesting that some-one else might have more knowledge on the subject then you or myself.

That's all.