Drugs

[replicant_008]

We have a legalised definition of illegal drugs which excludes legalised addictive substances such as nicotine (present in tobacco), caffeine and those items available OTC (Over the Counter) and by prescription.

In the past and here, folk mention the concept of a 'victimless act' ie if it ain't hurting someone else then we should decriminalize the act as the consequences of the act are personal.

IMHO I can't agree with this proposition. Every act we choose to do has consequences, some of them are obvious (eg you get high, you spend some money) some not so obvious (eg you get addicted or you may choose to fund the addiction in a criminal way).

From my observation, the consequences to the families and friends who abuse substances (legal or non-legal) is not inconsequential to them. The victims are not limited to the user of the substance but are often a tangible, substantial emotional, financial, physical (esp violence) and soul-destroying strain on their relationships that exact a real toll.

I don't judge anyone who uses drugs - I don't have a moral high ground to do that and I know of plenty of folk who do as most of you will.

If they ask me I'm pretty clear about my own position and most respect the fact that I have a line ruled and that I respect that others are free to make their choice even if it isn't the course that I'd choose.

[Dorikin]

Supratuner, if drugs are for ricers you must be a total crack addict.

[supratuner]

Originally posted by Dorikin
Supratuner, if drugs are for ricers you must be a total crack addict.

ok?

[Jimster]

Can we keep the attacks on eachother down and concentrate on drugs please

[YogsVR4]

bigfrit, I tend to agree that if someone wants to use drugs - be it a soft drug or shoot heroin five times a day - I say let them. However, I also believe a person has to be responsible for their actions. Because most drugs are mood/behavior altering, once someone starts taking them, they may not be as responsible as they say they will be when off the stuff.

At some point users (especially the hardcore ones) will do something that will cause harm to another person. Needless to say, thats the part where these people need to be held accountable. You see some groups claiming that we should work at rehabilitating these addicts. Where is the personal responsibility now? They chose to fuck up their life. Perhaps we help them out once, but if the ever make the statement "I want to do these drugs because its my right" then the next time they get caught harming someone else put them away for life. I know thats not practicle or reasonable, but neither is unfettered access to drugs.

[Graphik Styles]

i tried alchol and barfed 17 times...........

so i would rather do marijuana if anytin

[Oz]

Originally posted by YogsVR4
bigfrit, I tend to agree that if someone wants to use drugs - be it a soft drug or shoot heroin five times a day - I say let them. However, I also believe a person has to be responsible for their actions. Because most drugs are mood/behavior altering, once someone starts taking them, they may not be as responsible as they say they will be when off the stuff.

At some point users (especially the hardcore ones) will do something that will cause harm to another person. Needless to say, thats the part where these people need to be held accountable. You see some groups claiming that we should work at rehabilitating these addicts. Where is the personal responsibility now? They chose to fuck up their life. Perhaps we help them out once, but if the ever make the statement "I want to do these drugs because its my right" then the next time they get caught harming someone else put them away for life. I know thats not practicle or reasonable, but neither is unfettered access to drugs.

I can agree with you 100% there Yogs. We seem to think fairly similarly about these things (sans US politics). Personal Responsibility seems to be an antiquated notion in modern western culture. Mores the pity.

Originally posted by De$i Gank$ta
i tried alchol and barfed 17 times...........

so i would rather do marijuana if anytin

Well, in that case you obviously had WAY too much. Try again, with a serverely lowered dosage and you'll probably find you enjoy it more [says Oz while on his third beer :finger:]

[bigfrit]

Well You guys are absolutely right on that issue. People who do drugs (but abuse them) tend to blame other people or society for their misbehavior.
It is not because you have lost your job, or when you hve problems that society suddenly says that you HAVE to become an alcoholic or even a junkie, it's the people themselves.

I also agree with the fact that people should be taken responsable for their acts. For example, people who have smoked all their lives should have to cough up the money for the threatment by themselves and not be a burden to medical insurance, they are the ones that chose to start smoking.

But what we see in our civilisation, people stop taking responsability themselves , and start blaming other things, that don't have anything to do with this.
For exaple; people who smoke, blame the tobacco companies, people who have an indigestion, blame the restaurants or food makers, people who burn their lip when drinking coffee, blame the server! these are all genuine cases here!

My utopian solution to all these issues is that everything should be legalised. And that if you want access to thes things (coffee, alcohol, nicotine, drugs, whatever) you should take some kind of class or exam where they genuinly measure your sense of responsability. If you pass this, you should re-take this exam every year to see wether it has changed!

Like I said UTOPIAN solution. It isn't do-able...

But it's the thinkers that evolve society..... hehe

[tonioseven]

Originally posted by supratuner
drugs are for ricers, so no i dont do drugs!

I still think you need mental help Joey!!!

[Dorikin]

HAHHAH-TOnioseven great Avatar. Why cant autoshows here be like that?????????

[flyonthewall]

Allow me to post a few quotes on the subject from, IMO, the greatest comedian ever - the late great BILL HICKS...


If you don't think drugs have done good things for us then take all of your records,tapes and CD's and burn them.

- Bill Hicks [Unless you like listening to New Kids on the fucking Block]

Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally upon our planet. Doesn't the idea of making nature against the law seem to you a bit... unnatural?

- Bill Hicks

They lie about marijuana. Tell you pot-smoking makes you unmotivated. Lie! When you're high, you can do everything you normally do, just as well. You just realize that it's not worth the fucking effort. There is a difference.

- Bill Hicks

I have never seen people on pot get in a fight, because it's fucking impossible

- Bill Hicks

And on the seventh day, god stepped back and said "There is my creation, perfect in every way... oh, dammit I left pot all over the place. Now they'll think I want them to smoke it... Now I have to create republicans."

- Bill Hicks

My final point about alchohol, about drugs, about Pornography...What business is it of your's what I do, read, buy, see or take into my body as long as I don't harm another human being whilst on this planet? And for those of you having a little moral dilemna on how to answer this, I'll answer for you. NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS Take that to the bank, cash it and take it on a vacation outta my fucking life. And stop bringing shotguns to UFO sightings, they might be here to pick me up and take me with 'em.

- Bill Hicks

[jon@af]

When on the topic of drugs people usually think about things like pot and crack and other such narcotics, they dont usually think of the drugs like alcohol and caffiene like you guys are stating. I myself believe that most drugs are bad, and will never use them, caffiene on the other hand, I gotta have some way to stay awake at work.

[hondacivic4drlx]

Originally posted by supratuner
drugs are for ricers, so no i dont do drugs!

:hehe: :hehehe:

[JD@af]

I added the fourth option in the poll, which I then selected as my vote.

Drugs are given a bad name by drug abusers, not drug users, like myself, who occasionally may partake in something in moderation. There is the argument that drug money funds terrorism, and to that end, okay, you've got me. Can't really put together a rebuttal for that one.

Drugs are not for everybody, in fact they are not for most people. And I think it should be that way. But I see nothing wrong with trying something that turns your world on its side, and allows you to see things from a different perspective. I won't even get into how amazing some of them can make you feel.

In moderation, long term affects are from what I've seen, very difficult to trace or prove. Does it affect my daily life? No. And I also defend the point that alcohol, nicotene, caffiene, aspirin, prescrption pain killers, etc. are all legalized drugs, some of which harm more people and destroy more lives than all illegalized drugs combined. It's a ridiculous, appalling double-standard.

As for legalization, I think I kind of agree with Yogs. For one, the global drug market would crash. And I generally think this would be a good thing. But I have heard compelling arguments for why it is a bad idea as well.

Lastly, like the Bill Hicks material very much, flyonthewall

[hondacivic4drlx]

also if it was legalised there would probably be some sort of restriction on the potency of the drug in question. leaving the government to set the standered.