Has Top Gear Gone Retarded?

[VR43000GT]

Not usually. Some cars whether the be American, German, Japaese or anything else can be over rated under rated, or spot on. Just depends on the car and manufacturer. I know GM under rated the SS/SC and same with Dodge on the SRT-4.

[Musashi3000GT]

For those of you who dont know what hes raving about here is the link to the Shelby GT500 review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGbhKQlUhLo

For clarity the British are a more automotive oriented nation per square foot then Americans so yeah, I think they know about drivetrain loss. What they dont know is why american cars have so much of it because Jags, Austins, Lotus, Nobels, and other brit cars loose so little of it.
They never said it was "at the wheels" or "at the crank". they filmed it and edited that way because the point is to poke fun at the car and its actual power and the fact that despite the truth of it Ford still puts the name "500" on it.

They also go on to poke fun at its terrible handling, tini tiny itty bitty rear brakes, the way it's tail bounces around corners and the fact that it has a live rear axle. all of which by the way is.....factual.

as for the unfairness of a Mustang GT racing a raced prepped Lotus around a race track???? When did that happen? cause if Im not mistaken it was actually a VERY raced prepped VERY modded Roush Mustang Stage 3 against a VERY stock Loutus Exige-S ! No no no, thats not fair at all is it?
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/339382...oush_vs_lotus/

[VR43000GT]

Originally Posted by Musashi3000GT

For those of you who dont know what hes raving about here is the link to the Shelby GT500 review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGbhKQlUhLo

For clarity the British are a more automotive oriented nation per square foot then Americans so yeah, I think they know about drivetrain loss. What they dont know is why american cars have so much of it because Jags, Austins, Lotus, Nobels, and other brit cars loose so little of it.
They never said it was "at the wheels" or "at the crank". they filmed it and edited that way because the point is to poke fun at the car and its actual power and the fact that despite the truth of it Ford still puts the name "500" on it.

They also go on to poke fun at its terrible handling, tini tiny itty bitty rear brakes, the way it's tail bounces around corners and the fact that it has a live rear axle. all of which by the way is.....factual.

as for the unfairness of a Mustang GT racing a raced prepped Lotus around a race track???? When did that happen? cause if Im not mistaken it was actually a VERY raced prepped VERY modded Roush Mustang Stage 3 against a VERY stock Loutus Exige-S ! No no no, thats not fair at all is it?
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/339382...oush_vs_lotus/

While they did do a Roush Stage 3 (which is still considerabley less in cost than the Exige S), I did not mention that:

Originally Posted by SL3000gt

As far as their comparisons around a track the race a Mustang GT vs a roadcourse built Lotus!?

And I stand by that comment. They put a roadcourse built Lotus that costs about twice as much as it's competitor........the Mustang GT. And agian, I do enjoy their comedy, but that is like someone going out and comparing a Vespa to a Repsol CBR1000RR........it's hilarious isn't it. And like I said, I do enjoy their humor, it's their small-headed ideas that I find pointless and pedantic.

Wait until about 7 1/2 minutes in.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9kep0K0w8Mg

Originally Posted by Musashi3000gt

What they dont know is why american cars have so much of it because Jags, Austins, Lotus, Nobels, and other brit cars loose so little of it.

So they test drive American cars, give off various facts that most of us did not even know about...but they don't know that our cars have different kinds of drivetrain loss? They have been testing them for years. How long will it take them then? How come you know this but they still have not yet figured it out? Agian, I ask, are these guys just really just not that smart. They test drive almost everything under the sun and do not know about this....I guess that does affect how much they know. I had never looked at it like that before. I know I am going to get a bunch of replies saying, "hey the show is not factual, the show is not factual." Well, that may be, but it does not mean it needs to be a lie or ridiculously setup show. Funny yes, at the same time...dumb, yes.

In closing, I would like to say I find the show hilarious (ie custom made limos, amphibious vehicles, etc), but logistically put together, the show can be "bunk" at times.

[Musashi3000GT]

look bro, Brits have a dark sense of humor. They are very pedantic and they really hate American cars. So what? its the same bull we do to the Japanese.

Edit: just saw the video you where reffering to.

SO thats it? Thats why your so pissed off and raving about?
Bro you missed the point of that comparrison by a mile! Where did they say that those two cars where equals? when did they mention that it was a fair run?
The point of that comparison was to show that the Lotus is quicker then a car with twice as much pistons and 3 times the displacement. Price, hp and lap times are irrelevent in that comparison.

look man your looking at that show as if it where somehow responsible for bringing us the most up to date info and reports on the automotive world.
Thats not what Top Gear is. They call it a show about "Fun with cars".
thats all it is. You think they are CNN or MSNBC but they are The Daily Show.
relax, sit back and forget about fair trials and equal matches. Sometimes they like to take two cars that are lightyears from eachother in performance and pit them just to show how much of a real world difference it makes.

[VR43000GT]

First and foremost, I am not pissed off. I know posts can turn a different demeanor with no voice flucutation in them. Secondly, I saw it as a comparison because they compared to. I know it is not a factual show. But I still stand by my previous comments. I think parts of it are just stupid. Overall, I love the show, but some parts just seem dumb. I think it amiss that they put a GT Mustang agianst a car that costs more than twice as much as it and then put it agianst that car in its purpose-built environment. What is in fact the point about it? It is like a comic standing up and making completely irrelavant and extremely obvious comments. Is it factual? No, but it's still dumb. If you like watching them make comparisons that are far apart and already have a pre-determined ending/analysis between the two, that is your choice. I don't care if it is European, American, Japanese, or Italian, I just wish they would put together some more useful comparisons. It's not like when they put them together it is a joke. Or even lying about a cars specifications. It's not agianst the law or any broadcasting violations....I just don't see any point in it.

[CassiesMan]

If you are honestly that bothered by it (and you are, as you continue to go after these guys), then just don't watch it. Just turn it off and watch that self righteous jack off Neddle on Fifth Gear. Who cares if the show has zero entertainment value, its factual.

Oh, and its a damned perfectly reasonable comparison of a Mustang to a Lotus. I see plenty of Loti around here, as well as Mustangs. Chances are that both will take their cars to a road course. So what, if the Mustang driver looses, is he supposed to say "well, the Lotus is more expensive, so technically I won?" Hell no. And the Mustang and Lotus compare perfectly. Shitty interior, two doors, rear wheel drive.

Man, fuck that. Threads on here have lived and died over that argument. Its simple, run what you brung. And the producers brought a Lotus and a Mustang.

And at the end of the day, Clarkson, Hammond, and May are journalists. And its their show. Therefore, its all about their opinion. I mean, its not like Clarkson is sitting in your back yard with a gun to your head saying "YOU MUST AGREE WITH US!"

[MrPbody]

I know nothing about this TV show, but you guys are missing a fundemental with the horsepower rating. That "500" is SAE "Net" power, not GBHP. "Gross brake" horsepower is measured at the flywheel (or flexplate) using a "water brake" dyno and no accessories attached. It is accepted that there is a 15% loss for a manual transmission and about 20 for automatic-equipped cars when using a chassis dyno. A "500" GBHP engine should show about 400 RWHP with an auto trans... Ford "rates" the car at 500 "net" (all accessories installed and operating, power measured at the tailshaft of the transmission). A 10% loss is a LOT, based on that rating. Their point is probably that the Ford is over rated (imagine my surprise...). I saw an '05 GTO on a chassis dyno last month. It was basically stock, with a few little electronic "tweaks". It put down 410 RWHP. That from an engine "rated" SAE "net" at 400. It appears, LS2 is under rated, where the Ford is not. (this last statement for comparison sake, ONLY)

FWIW

Jim

[CassiesMan]

It was rated at the wheels. The Brits realize just as much as we do that its the only spot that matters. Although I hold that no numbers matter at all.

[VR43000GT]

Originally Posted by CassiesMan

If you are honestly that bothered by it (and you are, as you continue to go after these guys), then just don't watch it. Just turn it off and watch that self righteous jack off Neddle on Fifth Gear. Who cares if the show has zero entertainment value, its factual.

Oh, and its a damned perfectly reasonable comparison of a Mustang to a Lotus. I see plenty of Loti around here, as well as Mustangs. Chances are that both will take their cars to a road course. So what, if the Mustang driver looses, is he supposed to say "well, the Lotus is more expensive, so technically I won?" Hell no. And the Mustang and Lotus compare perfectly. Shitty interior, two doors, rear wheel drive.

Man, fuck that. Threads on here have lived and died over that argument. Its simple, run what you brung. And the producers brought a Lotus and a Mustang.

And at the end of the day, Clarkson, Hammond, and May are journalists. And its their show. Therefore, its all about their opinion. I mean, its not like Clarkson is sitting in your back yard with a gun to your head saying "YOU MUST AGREE WITH US!"

Bothered by it yes. Angry no. And as I have said repeatedly, I do like the show over all, I really do. And I could not agree more with run what you brung. But in most cases, it is people who have brought their own car to whatever race. They have an option to choose from any car out there. I just think it would actually be worth watching some of those comparisons if they put the Lotus agianst, let's say an EVO or a STi. And you are right, it is their show and they CAN do what they want, but that doesn't mean we have to like every aspect of it. And I could give a rats ass if it reflects bad on the Mustang, I just want to see a good rivaled match....that is all. I find that more entertaining. Just like I would rather watch a close football game than watch a pro team go agianst a division 2C highschool team. To me, that is entertainment. And agian, I am not looking for a factual show. I mentioned that in my last post if you want to go back and read it. And I also said, while it does not have to remain factual, it does not have to be a lie either. I see nothing wrong with what I am asking. Is it actually unfair that I (in my own opinion) would like to see a comparison that I can really get into rather than already clearly knowing what the results will be. I could have done that test in my head. At least leave something to the imagination as to who will come out on top.

[drunken monkey]

how much does a roush stage 3 mustang cost?
round these parts an exige s costs around £35000.
how does that compare with what i'd have to pay for the mustang?

[GForce957]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

how much does a roush stage 3 mustang cost?
round these parts an exige s costs around £35000.
how does that compare with what i'd have to pay for the mustang?

Core components is +21k not including shipping and handling.
In that you get:

ROUSHcharged 4.6L powertrain system
ROUSH 7 Piece Aerobody Kit
Lower Valance Fog Lamps
ROUSH 18-Inch Forged Chrome Wheel & Ultra-High Performance Tires
ROUSH Rear Exit High Performance Exhaust w/ Chromed Tips
ROUSH Fender Badges
ROUSH Decklid Emblem
ROUSH Embroidered Floor Mats
ROUSH Front Windshield Banner
ROUSH Billet Aluminum Shifter Handle
ROUSH Pedals w/ Dead Pedal
ROUSH Stage 3 White Face Gauge Cluster
ROUSH Stage 3 Sport Leather Seating
ROUSH Suspension System
ROUSH Brake Kit
ROUSH Serialized Engine Bay Plaque


So add that to the mustang gt you have already purchased, and then there are optional things such as:

Mustang Racing Stripes - $530
Interior Dash Trim Kit - $350
Quarter Window Louvers - $315
Rear Window Louvers - $875
Locking Lug Nuts - $60
Convertible Light Bar - $910
Billet Aluminum Shift Knob w/ Grips - $63
Short Throw Shifter - $340
Short Throw Shifter w/ Chrome Shifter Arm and White Ball Knob - $445
Short Throw Shifter w/ Chrome Shifter Arm and Black Ball Knob - $445
Trunk Mounted Tool Kit - $295
Door Sill Plates - $57

Overall, it ain't cheap

And, thats just for an American sale. I have no clue what the cost is on the other side of the pond

[drunken monkey]

well, I was just wondering how "unfair" the comparision is in terms of cost.
I do know that you guys do pay more for Lotus cars than we do.

Then again, it looks like the new M3 is going to be bargain for you compared to what we're going to be paying.

[CassiesMan]

The Loti themselves don't cost more over here. We just have to pay protectionist tariffs and shipping taxes and outragous dealership mark up. I think I saw one on our side of the pond go for about $55k. I've seen plenty in my area (mostly optioned out Elises), about as many M3s. They (the Loti and BMWs) seem to be the more popular weekend/dad picking up kid from school car around here.

[youngvr4]

Originally Posted by SL3000gt

Bothered by it yes. Angry no. And as I have said repeatedly, I do like the show over all, I really do. And I could not agree more with run what you brung. But in most cases, it is people who have brought their own car to whatever race. They have an option to choose from any car out there. I just think it would actually be worth watching some of those comparisons if they put the Lotus agianst, let's say an EVO or a STi. And you are right, it is their show and they CAN do what they want, but that doesn't mean we have to like every aspect of it. And I could give a rats ass if it reflects bad on the Mustang, I just want to see a good rivaled match....that is all. I find that more entertaining. Just like I would rather watch a close football game than watch a pro team go agianst a division 2C highschool team. To me, that is entertainment. And agian, I am not looking for a factual show. I mentioned that in my last post if you want to go back and read it. And I also said, while it does not have to remain factual, it does not have to be a lie either. I see nothing wrong with what I am asking. Is it actually unfair that I (in my own opinion) would like to see a comparison that I can really get into rather than already clearly knowing what the results will be. I could have done that test in my head. At least leave something to the imagination as to who will come out on top.

I UNDERSTAND YOU EXACTLY!!!!!!

actually everytime you respond to someone you make me laugh because it would almost seem as if they dont understand your point or just want you to understand there's and yet you have to try to prove your point again while letting them know they dont have to agree with you lol...this is actually one of the funniest threads i've ever read

basicaly these people feel that there not gonna make this an all out tv show for only car guys/car enthusiasts
but that at times they need to make comparisons for newbs so they can get everyones attention. imagine ricer when he first got to the boards, he wouldnt had a clue what car would win between a mustang gt and a tuned up lotus. lol seriously

[vectorspecialist]

i like the show. overall its good.

when they dyno'd the stang i already knew that its was 440+hp to the ground, not what the engine was making. not when u consider its the same engine in the gt500 as the ford gt, and that's rated at 535hp(i do believe)

i'd like to see them do a comparison on some older cars compared to new ones. see just how far technology has come. i know they put a jag xj220 against an enzo...or new supercar, but still how bout something that the average person can afford