Shuttering

[tbirddmnd]

Vapor Canister Purge Valve - does the 2001 have this too? I would assume so, and where is this at in case it does the same when I change out the DPFE?

[ibia22]

The Vapor Canister Purge valve is bolted to the firewall, directly behind the upper intake manifold, to the right of the interior fresh air intake duct.

It is black with a green cap. It has two hoses connected to its right side and one hose connected to its bottom side. And it has an electrical connector attached just above its bottom side hose.

[tbirddmnd]

Thanks! I found my DPFE by the way, nestled in behind the upper intake manifold! I should have changed it when I had it all apart but I didn't know about it then. Instead of going through that again I'm going to try to remove the cowl piece tonight and replace the DPFE sensor. The one I bought has a different design than what's on there now, however, but it does have the 2 vacuum inlet/outlet and the electrical connector socket, just no mounting holes. I did get the right one though.

Wish me luck.

[tbirddmnd]

I found the REAL DPFE sensor to the left of the battery and below the EGR valve itself. Changed it and it's running a little better but still not to my liking. Since I have the cowl off I'm going to change the Vapor Canister Purge Valve and see what that does.

Sure hope I don't have to do the plugs/wires and coil pack......

[tomj76]

Is this shuddering constant, or just intermittent? Also, does it feel like the steering wheel is shaking, or only the wheels? Does it seem to be coming from one side or another?

I have a shudder that happens about once every few minutes, lasts for only 1 sec or less, and doesn't seem to be related to engine load or the speed (although you need to be traveling at something greater than 20 mph).

I've changed both lower control arms and both inner tie rods. The outer tie rod ends and the struts seem fine. I've noticed wear on the front stabilizer?? bushings. There also seems a bit of movement at the power steering bushing/seal on the passenger side, but no leakage of power steering fluid.

The transmission was recently completely rebuilt, and there is also a misfire DTC for cylinder four. I changed the plugs, but not the wires. I also replaced all the push rods as this engine has 205k on it and there was significant valve tapping. Although this improved the tapping, some is still apparent, which probably indicates some lifters need service. However, checking with a stethoscope indicates the remaining valve noise is coming from the 1-2-3 (back) valve train, not the 4-5-6 (front).

At this point, I'm not sure if my shudder comes from the suspension, the transaxle, or the engine misfire.

BTW, although I don't share your displeasure for the smell of gasoline, I think the orange-based hand cleaners remove it fairly effectively.

[garync1]

To be honest the shuddering is going to be tough to find tell what ever fails.. Mine I am thinking at this point is my trans although after the Lube guard it started doing it more, although I did clean the motor yesterday after changing the oil..So that may come into play on mine. Its not leaking anymore though.. I know the first time it was bad and CEL blinked and the coil was bad..Now I just don't care.. If it goes it goes. In your case look for a rough road to see if your shudder start after to rule out suspension.. That may help..

[wiswind]

tbirddmnd,
Remember to try what I recommended a couple of posts before your first post.....the Berryman's B-12 Chemtool.
I chased all over, cleaning, and replacing things before I learned about this.
I was even using a product in a "maintenance dose" with nearly every fillup.
My mechanic just smiled when I told him this.....and explained about the solvency being needed to cut the junk inside the end cap over the spray end of the fuel injector.
I posted a couple of pictures of the spray end of one of my fuel injectors, one dirty, and one clean, in the pictures that the link in my signature takes you to.

This is one of, if not the cheapest thing to try.....and the Berryman's is one of the less expensive fuel system cleaners.

[tbirddmnd]

Thanks everyone for your comments and my apologies to the thread starter for "hijacking" it!

I don't think my problem is related to the tranny. It started right after I put about $15 worth of gas, bringing it up to about 1/4 tank. I had the blinking check engine light and then it went steady. So far I've performed the EGR port cleaning, changed the fuel filter, the DPFE sensor and no change other than the CEL went out. Still a bit rough at idle and it's "chugging" when accelerating on the road. I just pulled spark plug #3 (remember my code was P0303 for a misfire on cylinder 3) and it looks normal for having 66,500 miles on it. Ever so slight carbon deposits on the outer edge, and the electrode is fine too. I'm going to give it a quick cleaning and put it back in.

Wiswind, last night I put a can of Berryman's B-12 in the tank when I drove it to put in a few gallons of gas right after I changed the DPFE sensor. I could only go to 1/2 tank. It's going to have to be driven for the solvent to work through the injector or at least idled for a while in the driveway. My wife doesn't want to drive the van when it's like this at all and has asked me to get this taken care of by Monday. At this point I don't think it's the plugs and wires. I ordered a Vapor Canister Purge Valve from rockauto.com like ibia22 did a few posts back just to see if that would help. It should arrive on Friday or Saturday. At this point I'll try anything. But I don't want to take it to the stealership to plug it in to their diagnostic instrument and have to pay over $100, or any place else either. I'd rather try to take care of this myself even though I'm not a mechanic, but I can turn a wrench if I need to.

Still stumped for now!

[tbirddmnd]

I've cleaned ALL the plugs, they weren't bad at all, checked the wires for snugness and cracks. Nothing at all that I can see. It still runs rough.

Forgot to indicate that the shuddering is constant. You can visually see the engine shake slightly and it never did that before the problem started.

Something I forgot to mention after I cleaned the EGR ports: when the gas pedal is pressed you can hear a "sucking" or "gulping" of air before the throttle responds. It lasts about a quarter of a second. The van has power, it wants to run, but something's holding it back. When I manually flip back the throttle I can see the upper intake manifold "rise" and when I let the throttle go it goes back down. Seems to be coming from the area where the IAC valve connects to the manifold and around that back edge. This "sucking" of air and the way it's running almost seems like a vacuum line is disconnected. When I put the upper intake manifold back on it went on easily and I tightened all the bolts. This is something new and I don't think it affects the problem that happened in the first place.

Getting fed up with this van I think!

[garync1]

When you remove the intake did you remove the cowl.? If you did not there is a good chance you missed or removed a vac hose.. In behind the intake and they are hard to see you have 2 or 3 hoses that go to the intake plenum.2 are on the passenger side and there is one and the middle if i recall.. But over all you may have a vac problem now.. They can be tuff to locate though.

[tbirddmnd]

I didn't remove the cowl but I did re-connect all the vacuum hoses back there. There were the ones you mentioned and no other ones.

Today I get that Vapor Canister Purge Valve and as I install it I will triple-check all the connections, as well as make sure all the manifold bolts are tight.

[tbirddmnd]

I changed the Vapor Canister Purge Valve and no change. Still has a rough idle and drives bad. I re-checked the vacuum hoses and the upper intake manifold bolts and all were fine.

EDIT: I also changed the plugs and wires (that was an adventure - especially the back cylinders 1-3! Guess I AM a contortionist!) and no change. It drives a little "stronger" but there's a "flutter" and the engine still shakes. You can feel it as you sit in the driver's seat. I drove it up to the AutoZone where I bought my plugs and wires and the guy there could hear a vacuum leak from the area of the IAC. He suggested I spray some starter fluid (contanes ether) around the intake and IAC to see where the leak could be. He said if the engine idles up faster then that's where the leak is.

This thing ain't gonna beat me.

[tomj76]

>He suggested I spray some starter fluid (contains ether) around the intake and IAC to see where the leak could be. He said if the engine idles up faster then that's where the leak is.

You can do the same with a propane torch (unlit). Check the PVC tube that runs from the top of the intake plenum to the back valve cover. I've replaced that twice due to deterioration of the rubber joints.

Also, vacuum leaks can often be hear sooner than seen. If the guy at Autozone heard it, stick your head in there while it's running (careful with hair and clothes around the moving parts!!!). I found one behind the engine where a vacuum line went from the back of the plenum to the fire wall. The line had rubbed against another part until a hole was worn in the line.

[tbirddmnd]

Thanks but I don't have a propane torch and I'm not going to pick one up just for this, I'll buy a can of starter fluid for $2.99!

I went to check the snugness of the upper intake manifold bolts and I broke one off! So I can add that to my list of problems.

I checked and re-checked all my vacuum lines and they are all fine with no cracks or loose fittings.

[tbirddmnd]

I sprayed the starter fluid around where I've been hearing the gulping air and I can find no evidence of a vacuum leak.

I re-cleaned the MAF and put it all back together. I got a new code, just 1, code P0171, system too lean for the left bank 1.

The guy at AutoZone told me it was just for one oxygen sensor. Dunno which one. I have a feeling this may be related to that "gulping" of air that I've been hearing. Do I take a chance and start playing with the O2 sensors?