Deciphering the McLaren F1 VINs

[hurstg01]

I guess GTR's that have been converted for road use have to have a VIN, hence why #11R has one and #09R hasn't. Hopefully I'll soon be able to confirm if #13R has one too!......

[hurstg01]

Ralph Lauren's Chassis #055 - I have some of the VIN, can someone fill in the blanks?......I guess it starts like the rest IE SA9AB5AC_ _1048055

[Peloton25]

The VIN on the Ameritech label will be different because it's an Ameritech VIN and not the original McLaren one. The partial VIN referenced on the lighted sign is the real McLaren one, but you can see the one on the door label ends in what appears to be 99L1SA398055. The first 5 postions are unclear to me except maybe the 3rd which appears to be a 9 as it (most likely) should be regardless of who's VIN it is. If Chris still has the original hires version of that image we may be able to determine the entire VIN Ameritech assigned to the cars they imported.

Also note the "S" on the Ameritech label in the 8th to the last position. That implies the year of manufacture was 1995. In addition, that label states "Date of Mfg: OCT 1995". Anyone with a copy of "Driving Ambition" can see that is false, as chassis #055 was built in 1996.

>8^)
ER

[mini magic]

I had a list of ALL Ameritech VINs somewhere. I'll try to find it

[hurstg01]

Erik, I thought that was the case; Will there be a Mclaren VIN where the others are?, as in #013, in the engine bay.

[hurstg01]

LM3 VIN as offered by gerd on a post here

SA9AB5A6277048LM3 (changed '5' to '9' to read correct)

[hurstg01]

Originally Posted by mini magic

I had a list of ALL Ameritech VINs somewhere. I'll try to find it

I have just compiled a nearly completed list, call it work in progress, it just needs the gaps fillling

SA9AB5AC_R_____42
SA9AB5AC_R_____44
SA9AB5AC_R_____45
SA9AB5AC_R_____55
SA9AB5AC_R_____62
SA9AB5AC_R_____67
SA9AB5AC_R_____74

[Peloton25]

Originally Posted by hurstg01

Erik, I thought that was the case; Will there be a Mclaren VIN where the others are?, as in #013, in the engine bay.

Hard to say without someone sticking their nose in there.

One would hope that the McLaren VIN tags were not altered or removed during Ameritech's changes.

>8^)
ER

[mini magic]

Erik, i can't find the list of ameritech VINS but i know i sent it to you a while back, do you still have it?

[Peloton25]

Chris- I do have what you sent me, but it will be a little while before I can get to it to share. I am hoping they are the Ameritech-sourced VINs and not just the McLaren VINs from the Ameritech cars. I can't recall...

Greg- The 8th to the last (or 10th) character of the VIN identifies the year of production. None of them will be "R" as that equals "1994" and all seven of the F1s that would eventually be converted through Amerispec were built in 1995 or later. In the true McLaren VIN it will be the actual year that is referenced - so "S", "T" & "V" on these particular cars.

In the Ameritech VIN it's probably going to be an "S" in all cases regardless of the actual year the car was built since they were "working the system" and had to show the cars as 1995 (or older) to get around the OBD-II requirement (and possibly others) for cars built 1996 or later.

To modify the list you presented above, making use of a web-based calculator to validate the check digit, these should be the complete McLaren VINs for the 7 Ameritech F1s.:

SA9AB5AC1S1048042
SA9AB5AC5S1048044
SA9AB5AC7S1048045
SA9AB5AC8T1048055
SA9AB5AC1V1048062
SA9AB5AC0V1048067
SA9AB5AC8V1048074

Calculating the check digit was going to be the painful part if I had to use the mathematical equation to factor each one. Now that I have that web tool, I could easily produce a complete list of the VINs for all the F1 road variants (F1s, LMs, GTs*).

To figure out the ones to complete the above list I simply entered all the characters that were known and then substitued "1" through "X" in the check digit position until the check digit came up as "Valid [#]" on that site. Not exactly quick, but rather painless. Someone who is really smart could code a table that would factor them all automatically, I am sure. Also, to make sure that website was giving accurate answers I checked the other F1 VINs that are known with certainty and each one checked out, until I got to the F1 GT.

* The Brunei GT's VIN it says the check digit should be a "3", whereas the list shows an "8". Maybe it was a keying error - 3's do look like 8's sometimes when written down, but really it calls into question the other positions of the VIN in the 4-8 range on the GTs in my mind. We'd need to have another GT's VIN to cross-reference and determine where the error occurred. Anyone seen the Burgundy one recently??

It is worth noting that even the VIN on GTR #11R checked out so we probably have all the pieces there like we do on the LMs and F1s. One would assume that all the road legal GTRs may have VINs and if so they should also be quite similar.

Last but not least, the VIN gerd provided for LM3 was all jacked up.

SASAB5A6277048LM3 <-- bad
SA9AB5AC2T1048LM3 <-- good

I see no reason why LM3's VIN wouldn't match the ones that went to Brunei. I reformatted it to match those and the check digit was valid which kind of proves that point. If he was pulling that VIN from someone's handwriting or from a grainy photograph I can see where he might have guessed wrong on some of those positions.

>8^)
ER

[Peloton25]

Here's the list of Ameritech VINs Chris had. According to the check digit calculator, about half of these VINs are invalid. On the ones that didn't match up I put what their actual check digit should have been in parenthesis to the right.

1A9MC99L7SA398042 (3)

1A9MC99L7SA398044

1A9MC99L1SA398045 (9)

1A9MC99L1SA398055

1A9MC99L1SA398062 (9)

1A9MC99L8SA398067

1A9MC99L5SA398074

>8^)
ER

[hurstg01]

top work

[Peloton25]

The request from Chris had me digging through my archives this evening and in the process I found some other VINs I had reference to, most in text format from old emails. I got started compiling the rest of the list based on known patterns, however I can not be totally confident in my results due to a problem I will explain later.

If the VIN listed below is simply based on the known pattern and calculated check digit I have marked them as "assumed", otherwise I left a note as to the reference/s used to verify them. I put them in Code tables so the post wouldn't be a mile long.

XPs:

SA9AB5AC8N1048XP1 - assumed
SA9AB5AC6P1048XP2 - assumed
SA9AB5AC8P1048XP3 - assumed
SA9AB5ACXP1048XP4 - previous post, text based reference 
SA9AB5AC1P1048XP5 - assumed

F1 road cars:

SA9AB5ACXP1048001 - text based reference
SA9AB5AC1P1048002 - Brunei list
SA9AB5ACXR1048003 - photo source
SA9AB5AC1P1048004 - assumed
SA9AB5AC3R1048005 - Brunei list
SA9AB5AC5R1048006 - assumed
SA9AB5AC7R1048007 - photo source
SA9AB5AC9R1048008 - Brunei list
SA9AB5AC0R1048009 - photo source
SA9AB5AC7R1048010 - assumed
SA9AB5AC9R1048011 - auction description
SA9AB5AC0R1048012 - photo source
SA9AB5AC2R1048013 - photo source
SA9AB5AC4R1048014 - Brunei list, photo source and text based
SA9AB5AC6R1048015 - text based reference 
SA9AB5AC8R1048016 - photo source
SA9AB5ACXR1048017 - assumed
SA9AB5AC1R1048018 - text based reference 
SA9AB5ACXR1048020 - assumed
SA9AB5AC1R1048021 - assumed
SA9AB5AC3R1048022 - assumed
SA9AB5AC5R1048023 - assumed
SA9AB5AC7R1048024 - text based reference 
SA9AB5AC9R1048025 - assumed
SA9AB5AC7S1048028 - photo source
SA9AB5AC6R1048029 - assumed
SA9AB5AC7S1048031 - text based reference
SA9AB5AC0S1048033 - assumed
SA9AB5AC6S1048036 - assumed
SA9AB5AC8S1048037 - text based reference *see below
SA9AB5ACXS1048038 - photo source and text based reference
SA9AB5AC1S1048039 - assumed
SA9AB5AC8S1048040 - assumed
SA9AB5AC1S1048042 - assumed
SA9AB5AC3S1048043 - assumed
SA9AB5AC5S1048044 - assumed
SA9AB5AC7S1048045 - text based reference 
SA9AB5AC9S1048046 - assumed
SA9AB5AC0S1048047 - photo source
SA9AB5AC0T1048048 - assumed
SA9AB5AC4S1048049 - confirmed by samzbob
SA9AB5AC0S1048050 - assumed
SA9AB5AC2S1048051 - photo source (registration)
SA9AB5AC2T1048052 - assumed
SA9AB5AC6S1048053 - assumed
SA9AB5AC8T1048055 - assumed - text based reference *see below
SA9AB5AC8V1048057 - assumed
SA9AB5ACXW1048059 - assumed
SA9AB5AC1T1048060 - assumed
SA9AB5ACXV1048061 - assumed
SA9AB5AC1V1048062 - assumed
SA9AB5AC3V1048063 - photo source - sales flyer
SA9AB5AC5V1048064 - previous post (registration)
SA9AB5AC7V1048065 - photo source
SA9AB5AC9V1048066 - photo source
SA9AB5AC0V1048067 - assumed
SA9AB5AC2V1048068 - text based reference 
SA9AB5AC2W1048069 - assumed
SA9AB5AC0V1048070 - assumed
SA9AB5AC2V1048071 - photo source
SA9AB5AC2W1048072 - text based reference 
SA9AB5AC4W1048073 - auction description
SA9AB5AC8V1048074 - assumed - text based reference *see below
SA9AB5AC8W1048075 - assumed

LMs:

SA9AB5AC9T1048LM1 - Brunei list
SA9AB5AC2T1048LM2 - assumed
SA9AB5AC2T1048LM3 - photo source
SA9AB5AC4T1048LM4 - Brunei list
SA9AB5AC6T1048LM5 - Brunei list

GTs:

SA9AB5BC8T1048054 - Brunei list, then corrected by M.S.O records
SA9AB5BC5T1048058 - assumed

I did not include 'XP1 LM' or '56XPGT' on those last two lists as I am really not sure how they would have formatted the final three positions of their VINs to denote chassis numbers. Maybe the GT prototype simply ends in "056", but the LM prototype is anyone's guess. I also think the year on the LM prototype will be an "S", not a "T".

Update - 56XPGT = SA9AB5BC1T1048056 - M.S.O records

It's late, so I'm not going to put together the list of potential GTR VINs now. Actually, I am going outside to watch the lunar eclipse. opcorn: If someone else wants to do a list for the GTRs we've seen plates on, be my guest.

Now for the problem, and it's a big one - a lot of the "assumed" VINs may be inaccurate.

I first stumbled upon it with the VIN for #051. We know #051 was built in 1996 so the VIN should contain a "T" to designate the year of manufacture in the 10th position. However, in the registration that Roger provided it's clearly an "S" identifying 1995. It's hard to say just how many VINs in the list above may be wrong because of a difference in the year of manufacture and the year the VIN was assigned. For all the ones with a variance, both the 9th and 10th positions will be inaccurate. I'm betting towards the end of the list that there may be a problem with many of the assumed ones, so do not take this list as even being close to 100% accurate until each one is confirmed through another source. In fact, once I discovered the problem I almost didn't complete the post as I don't like wrong information floating around.

= = = = = =

As for the text based discrepancies I encountered from my sources:

Chassis #037 listed VIN SA9AAB5A6851048037 - for starters, that's a total of 18 characters - the "A" in the 5th position is a duplicate of the previous character. Also the "6" should be a "C" and the 8th to the last should be an "S". The VIN checks out when I make the logical corrections.

Chassis #055 was listed with VIN SA9AB5AC6W1048055 - the "W" was horribly inaccurate for the year and the check digit was not valid even before I corrected the year to a "T". What was listed was an invalid VIN so I think the assumption on the list above is accurate or at least closer to it. You'll notice that the first 14 characters here are identical to the next entry, so I think someone just goofed on Ralph's F1s.

Chassis #074 listed VIN SA9AB5AC6W1048074. This discrepancy could be identical to the chassis #051 scenario where the car was assigned a VIN that doesn't match the year it was completed. In fact the check digit on this VIN checks out, so it could be that the one on my list is inaccurate and this one is correct.

Finally I noted on the list that I had a photo reference for chassis #028's VIN. Most will have this shot already, but probably just forgot about it:



>8^)
ER

[mini magic]

Here are the ones i had:

SA9AB5ACXP1048XP4
SA9AB5AC1P1048002
SA9AB5AC3R1048005
SA9AB5AC7R1048007
SA9AB5AC9R1048008
SA9AB5AC9R1048011
SA9AB5AC2R1048013
SA9AB5AC4R1048014
SA9AB5AC6R1048015
SA9AB5AC8R1048016
SA9AB5AC7R1048024
SA9AB5A6851048037
SA9AB5ACXS1048038
SA9AB5AC2S1048051
SA9AB5AC6W1048055
SA9AB5AC5V1048064
SA9AB5AC6W1048074
SA9AB5AC2V1048068
SA9AB5AC6R1048069
SA9AB5AC2W104072
SA9AB5AC4W1048073
SA9AB5AC9T1048LM1
SA9AB5AC2T1048LM3
SA9AB5AC4T1048LM4
SA9AB5AC6T1048LM5
SA9AR5BC8T1048054




Note, 069 is new for you based on your list above

[hurstg01]

Originally Posted by Peloton25

Finally I noted on the list that I had a photo reference for chassis #028's VIN. Most will have this shot already, but probably just forgot about it:

>8^)
ER

Cheers for that pic Erik, I didn't have that one!

Cool, this thread is now added here. It could run and run when 'assumed' becomes 'confirmed' .......just like the chassis plate one.