overheating-strange case

[Gary1234]

I agree that a leaking head gasket is most likely the source of your overflow problem.

Another way to check for a leaking head gasket is to remove the intake manifold ond look up inside. Normally there is a thin even soot deposit but on cylinders with a leaking gasket, you will see an accumulation of soot and soot "lumps" ... the worse the leak, the greater the soot deposit.

[hrench]

dhodge,

I replaced the waterpump last night (O'reilly's has a rebuilt for 28.99 if you're in the midwest), but that wasn't the problem at all. I don't recommend you do yours.

BTW, the waterpump I took off (193K miles) looked as good as the new one I put on, ref the impeller. I don't know how people have problems with the 'wearing' down--you could still see manufacturing marks in the steel.

Felt pretty stupid replacing a good waterpump. The serpentine belt noise I heard turned out to be a failing idler pully bearing. Good that I found it, but not any real help now. Only took about two-hours--really easy pump to get to.

As for the head gasket, I observed that the coolant is turning to 'foam' when the engine gets hotter, probably because exhaust in it. I was able to buy the 'bar's leak' head gasket sealer at O'reilly's for only ten bucks. Not much lost if it doesn't work, but the proceedure to put it in involves lots of fill-drain cycles and I've already done the flush. It's clear. Arimid fibers.
http://www.barsproducts.com/1100.htm

Tell you tomorrow if this helps.

[Huney1]

Wasn't kidding about the worn impeller blades, we have experienced a good many here. I wondered how they could wear down that much and my theory is the coolant must have been way high in acid pH and electrolisis & acidity ate them away. I put a new serpentine belt on mine a few months back and while it was off I did a spin job on the idler pulley and it seemed smooth & OK. 'Preciate the heads up and if I hear anything wierd I'll take my stethascope and put on it. Those things are excellent tool for finding the source of noises.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....&group_ID=1411

[hrench]

Here's my update--in the last few days, I've replaced the waterpump, the thermostat, the coolant pressure/fill bottle, the serpentine belt (it needed it) and I've put 'head gasket repair' from Bar's leak in the system. My new radiator cap (from China) broke into six pieces, so I have the original back on.

I just did a ten-mile test drive at 95degrees with the AC on and it seemed to be cooling okay. However, when I stopped, I could hear the cap hissing.
No coolant escaped, but I'm pretty sure I still have 'the problem'.

The head-gasket seal stuff (wasn't clear after all) took lots of work to put in what with the flushes, the run for 15 min, the cool for 1 hour, run for 20 min, cool, leave open to air for 12-24 hours. If it had a bad head gasket, I think I'd see more symptoms.

BTW, Gary, I appreciate your intake manifold check advice--I haven't had the manifold off yet, but I may soon enough.

I'm starting to think that it might be excessive heat from the 'bottom end' of the engine, like maybe I spun a bearing or something. How could I tell if this was the case? The car make plenty of noises when I listen for them, esp. a whine at 45mph that repeats at about 65 mph (natural frequency's) but still stays at those speeds when I shift to third and get the rev's higher. I've believed it was bearing or tran related, but maybe not...

I'll drive the car to work monday (60 mile roundtrip) to see if it really happens to me. Seems like such a pain of a problem--oil looks fine, car runs fine, only one stupid symptom, but such a risk.

I'll keep you all up to date.

Dhodge, have you gotten anywhere with this?

[Huney1]

"However, when I stopped, I could hear the cap hissing." That indicates it is not holding pressure and unless you have the required 16 lbs on the cooling system it will not work properly. Did we ever get a conclusive blown head gasket test and did you test the coolant for evidence of exaust gas?

Water boils at 212F sea level and with 16 pounds of pressure it 'probably boils around 240F. So with no pressure you're boiling at 212F and that's where your water is going in the form of steam or liquid coolant pushed out of the reservior cap. If the head gasket is blown a bad reservior cap will only compound the problem. You said the Chinese cap broke so take it back for exchange or get a refund and get a good one and put it on and see if you still hear the hissing.

"I'll drive the car to work monday (60 mile roundtrip) to see if it really happens to me." Be sure and take a 5 gal can of clean water so at the first hint of overheating stop and let it cool off and you have water to fill it up again. Get a new cap tomorrow and try that.

"Replaced the coolant pressure/fill bottle," No need for that unless it was leaking. Get a new cap tomorrow. (Beginning to sound like a broken record here.)

[Gary1234]

Without re-reading all your posts, I assume you've run the simple head gasket check ... you run the engine until it's good and hot then, with the engine still running, you look into the top of the coolant overflow reservoir. Any air bubbles rising through the coolant indicate a leaking head gasket.

I would think the engine would be making loud noises if you had a spun bearing ... LOL.

[Huney1]

Gary, it appears my first reply fell on deaf ears, this is an excerpt from my FIRST reply: "The reservior, (overflow tank), caps do wear out and should be replaced when a groove forms in the rubber. First get a new cap and if you experience the same probelm go to the parts stores and ask for a blown head gasket test kit and check it out." Is there any other way I could have said better?

Key words there are 'FIRST' and 'blown head gasket test kit' and I still say those should be done before moving on. Nine days ago I suggested those two things be done FIRST and now we've done a lot of work and spent money that may not have been necessary. Capish? Why not at least take Gary's advice and look for bubbles in the reservoir tank neck?

"when I stopped, I could hear the cap hissing. No coolant escaped, but I'm pretty sure I still have 'the problem'." Yes, you do, and the hissing cap is a BIG RED FLAG saying, "Hey, I'm hissing and I shouldn't be hissing, I should be sealed up tight, SO THROW ME AWAY, GET A NEW CAP AND REPLACE ME." What if you get a new cap and the problem goes away?

Gary sez; I would think the engine would be making loud noises if you had a spun bearing ...
AMEN.

OK, . . one more time; New cap & do a test drive. If the problem persists check for exhaust gases in the coolant. See, if one of those is the problem and you don't fix it, no matter what you do you will never fix it. Capish? Do that and we'll go from there, otherwise, the way it is now, I have nothing else to contribute.

[hrench]

Well, the good news is that I've driven the car more than 150 miles with no sign of another boil over. I'm thinking the problem is licked.

Gosh, Huney1, sounds like you're not pleased with me. No deaf ears here; if you read my earlier posts, the very first thing I replaced (Aug 3) was the radiator/pressure bottle cap. The Ford cap is back in place, but behaving exactly like the Chinese one was before it's snap-fits failed and it popped apart. It vents a small amount of 'air' on immediate shutdown, but because the hot-fill line allows 2-3 inches of empty bottle, no coolant escapes. Then it's done. I do intend to trade the broken-one in for a replacment, but I'm not sure I even care to have another low-quality cap.

As for the head-gasket-test-kit, my O'reilly didn't carry one and on top of that, we watched Dhodge spend the $50 to get in inconclusive result. I'm trying to fix this on-the-cheap, so instead, I just spent ten bucks on some head-gasket-healer huck-em-puck. I'm thinking it's done the trick. Or something else did. I would've looked for bubbles in the return line, but Gary1234 didn't suggest this until after I had put in the leak-stop. I do recall seeing 'foam' coolant and telling you all. but that was during flush with the cap-open. With no pressure, it's hard to tell what is unusual.

Just for reference to other mechanics that may be dealing with this, I've replaced the radiator cap, the water pump, the pressure bottle (visibly leaking, stretched along the plastic on the bottom, probably occurred during the high-pressure phases that caused overflow (??)), the serpentine belt, a bad idler, I've flushed carefully and I've put barsleak 1100 head gasket goo in the system and finally, I replaced the thermostat just to be safe, I know they fail. Adds up to about $100 total and something like four hours.

The things I don't think helped the boil-over problem are the waterpump and the cap. I don't know for sure, but I think the barsleak or the thermostat did the trick. I had to fix the belt, the pully and the bottle just because they needed it.

I've heard from others that leak-stop will only fix things temporarily. Well, I'm going to find out. I really didn't want to replace the engine this month anyway. I intend to keep this car, so I know we will eventually...

Dhodge, I'll still be pleased to hear how you get out of this.

[Dhodge]

Sorry for my delay in responding. My roof sprung a leak last week and I just found out that I likely have termites in my house as well (my two year old daughter asked me—what are these ants doing in the house)! Why does everything go wrong at once! Anyway, here is my update on the coolant-overflowing-the-reservoir-tank situation.

I spoke to the tech at Ford and he suggested the three most likely causes were the cooling fans, water pump, and head gasket. The cooling fans work fine so that is not it. Since my head gasket test was negative, and the overflowing problem is somewhat intermittent (I would think that with a leaking head gasket, the overflowing problem would be more systematic—happening every time I drive the car), I decided to replace the water pump, which I just finished doing today.

The old water pump is slightly worn. But my sense is that it is not worn sufficiently so as to be causing the problem. I will give the car a few test runs this week and report back later in the week with the results.

Ford charges $50 to diagnosis the problem, so if the new water pump doesn’t fix the problem, I think that I will follow up on Huney1 suggestions and let them look at it.

[Huney1]

OK, it's intermitten & sounds like it loses coolant until it gets low enough to run hot. I can't remember everything you did, but the reservior tanks have been known to crack underneath where you can't readily see a leak and I guess you could take a light color rag and stuff it under there and leave it all night and see if the rag has a spot on it from a leak. If you don't park it on hard surface then put a piece of cardboard under the engine and see if shows a leak drip.

[tripletdaddy]

Sorry to hear you are having such an evasive problem to solve Dhodge and hrench. To figure out the engine you have sounds like your dealer is about as dumb and useless as tits on a boar hog!? Give me a break, "too long ago to have records for the engine vin id," blah blah blah. They got it. They just gave you the run around. My Haynes manual for "antique" Tauruses from 86 to 95 states that the 8th digit is the engine code. And it has the key to the code to determine what engine it is. So any decent manual should contain this information. Without looking for myself on mine, possibly the emissions tag or the top of the engine/air intake manifold may say. Hope this helps.