'90 Grand AM with a few issues...

[xeroinfinity]

My bad I was thinkin his motor was a 2.3 or something not the 2.5L iron duke !
Which was used in Grand am's 1985-1991

And youre right inafog the gear drives are better.

If the motor just got rebuilt, then maybe spending the extra cash would be worth it.

[Mr. Guy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Guy

...with the 2.5L Iron Duke...

I was under the impression that all cars used either a timing belt or timing chain, never even considered a gear-driven system until I saw the kit :P

But, Autozone's website only has a conversion kit to convert to a gear drive. That's why I assumed that the stock system was a chain drive.

Fake edit: Here's the geardrive conversion kit.
Autozone has their (chain) timing sets marked as Original Equipment, which made me think even more that it was originally a chain drive.

Gah, which one does this stupid thing have >.<

Oh, the engine has nearly 250k miles on it. Not sure when it was last rebuilt...
Heck, how much would it cost to have it rebuilt, do you think? They can perform the fix (assuming it's not been done in the past) while they have it all torn apart ~.~ as well as seeing which setup this thing has.

Or, generally there's a rebuilt engine available on eBay for $500-$800...

[xeroinfinity]

Well after checking into this , I think this is what you should have in there now.
This one's from Advance....


This one's from NAPA...

That is OEM parts.

Not alot of engines with factory gear drives, not american anyway.

[Mr. Guy]

Looks like a chain drive to me.
(those two pictures are the ones Autozone's site has on hand)

I was thinking the conversion kit was to directly link the camshaft with the crank via two gears. But when I actually stopped to think about it, linking them directly would cause the camshaft to turn in the opposite direction!

Yea, I feel stupid now :P

I guess the conversion kit is for those people who have old belt drives or something.

[inafogg]

the one in there now is gear to gear (that's why the noise)i don't know about the new conversion(with timing chain)but like i said earlier it's been awhile since & there maybe a conversion kit now. using the chain may quite the noise but thats why u drill hole in oil galley plug.either way i guess is fine as long as prices are the same good luck & let me know which one u use & how it turns out

[Mr. Guy]

There's no conversion kit for gear-to-chain, only the other way around...so if it's a gear system already, I guess I'll be paying the extra money for replacement gears :\

Ah well. I guess if given the choice, I'd rather have gears instead of a chain linking it. I can deal with the noise if it's going to last x amount of times longer.

Thanks a lot for all your help, guys.

[inafogg]

just make sure the oil galley is drilled an i'll guaranty you will have no noise good luck & let me know how you make out

[Mr. Guy]

Hey guys, sorry to bother you...but a quick update and a slightly less quick question.

Recent monetary problems (read: no money) have prevented me from getting this fixed, so I've put up with the noise and continued driving the car.

Recently, I've started hearing a metallic "tok" sound that seems to be coming from the valve cover, though I'm not 100% sure because of the difficulty of localizing sounds on this thing.
The sound comes and goes, and I've only heard it when the car is idling before being driven (though it might simply be that I can't hear it inside the car). It has a definate rhythm to it when it does come up.

What could it be? The engine seems to be running fine, in fact it's been running slightly better lately, sometimes even firing up after being cranked once. Doesn't seem to be missing, the CEL hasn't lit in ages (it used to when I was at a stop light, or when the car was warming up). Though I suppose I should check the CEL bulb to make sure it isn't blown.

[xeroinfinity]

Sounds can be challenging to locate.

The easiet way would be to use a automotive stethoscope.

But most people dont have those so a long screw driver or even a yard stick will work.
Place it on various areas of the motor while its running and you should be able to tell where its coming from.

Just watch out for moving parts, they'll break your yard stick

[grfnkl]

You can check you Check Engine light when you turn the key without starting the car. Maybe the noise is the PCV valve. I know they tend to get noisey when they are older ( making a rattley metal noise kind of like loose bearings). Unless something else is loose under the valve cover.

[inafogg]

dont worry about puttin off gear replacement.its not goin to hurt engine(bend valves etc.)if they do go south.engine will just stop running & i dont remember doin any that did brake. as far as other noise stethoscope is a good way to check(as mention earlier)they had push rods bending a little & #1 spark plug wires going bad (heat issues in that area)if you do check push rod take it out & roll it as they dont bend alot.ill get back to u if something else comes to mind. good luck & keep us posted Mike

[Mr. Guy]

Well, took off the valve cover yesterday (the day before, now...really need to stop staying up so late, hehe). The only thing out of the ordinary was a bit of cork (I think) that looked like it'd broken off of a round plug or something...but that's it.

Took out the pushrods, one by one. All of them are perfectly straight, and not worn much at all...so I suppose the engine was overhauled/rebuilt at some point(s). Or maybe it's just always oiled so well that it never needed it...hey, I can dream

Forgot to poke the engine with something long (found a pipe that would likely do the trick), but I did listen to it from several angles. It's definately coming from the right (passenger) side of the engine, though I don't think it's one of the accessories. The sound worries me, it's not a pinging, not a knocking really, somewhere in between...

I'll poke the engine with my pipe o d00m tomorrow. Anything else I should check while the valve cover is off? The valvetrain seems to be running properly; pushrods are arrow-straight, springs are springy, stem seals seem to be sealing, etcetera...

[xeroinfinity]

The cork material could have been part of an old gasket.
I dont like those because of that, the pieces can clog oil drains in the head so make sure they are clear and drain good.

The area you are hearing the noise is probly the timing chain or something in that area.
Does your crank shaft pulley appear bent and or wobbly when the engines running ?

If it still runs good and you have the money,
might be a good time to trade it in on something a little newr.

[inafogg]

does the noise seem to be in timing gear area or is it higher/lower

[Mr. Guy]

Well, I poked and prodded. Sure enough, pressed the pipe I had against the timing gear cover, the noise stopped and I could feel a "heartbeat". Something is smacking against that cover...why do I have the terrible feeling it's one of the timing gears wanting to fly off.

As for the crankshaft, no wobble that I can tell.

I don't want to trade her in, though...only the 2000 and newer 2.3L's can match the efficiency of my little 2.5 (this is according to fueleconomy.gov, mind, and I've found it to be mostly accurate), that's WITH a better transmission so they actually have the upper hand, and anyway I'm quite sure I can't afford one of those late models right now. Besides, I like my lack of features and firm ride, less that can go wrong.

(^that last bit coming from a guy who owns a Tbird with a fully digital gauge where *everything* can go wrong...ha)

Originally Posted by grfnkl

You can check you Check Engine light when you turn the key without starting the car. Maybe the noise is the PCV valve. I know they tend to get noisey when they are older ( making a rattley metal noise kind of like loose bearings). Unless something else is loose under the valve cover.

Didn't mean to ignore you :P
PCV valve is only a few months old, doesn't rattle unless I toy with it.
Everything under the valve cover is tight, except the rockers when they're not in use...I can wiggle them if I work at it.