suspension

[silicon212]

Originally Posted by GreyGoose006

i have replaced my end link bushings with polyeurethane ones and switched the frame bushings side to side so they will hold a bit tighter for the time being.

where should i look for 9c1 springs?
all i can find are lowering springs and i dont want lowering springs.
as for bottoming out, i usually dont have a problem with that right now with worn out stock springs.
i could of course replace my bumpstops with the zqe (or whatever) bumpstops that the impala ss guys swear by.

as for the rear swaybar, i'm not sure if i want to do that yet.
i have heard that it will drastically make it want to oversteer, and i tend to "forget" to slow down for turns... my bad.

Whoever told you that about a rear swaybar was seriously high on a mixture of coke and meth, along with a liberal dose of stupidity. The entire purpose of those is to keep the car flatter through a turn, thereby keeping more of the tires in good contact with the road, hence better handling. Remember, handling is a function of the tires hitting the road, the aim of increasing handling is to get that contact patch as large as possible through a whole range of motion.

Oversteer, or "getting loose", is how most NASCAR race winners drive their cars. You can correct the amount of oversteer through caster and camber settings on the front end, again in NASCAR terms, a "setup". Of course, if you really knew how to drive, you wouldn't worry about it as it is advantageous in getting through a low speed turn at high speed.

Don't forget about what I said of my cars handling in #9 above. My car has the rear sway bar, or antiroll bar, in the back as a part of the 9C1 package.

[Blue Bowtie]

Originally Posted by silicon212

Yes, and mine has all of the ride quality of a 1976 Silverado 4x4 ...

That good, eh? My '94 is low enough that I can't get a 2 x 4 on edge under it at the front. Imagine how little compression those springs allow. It doesn't bottom, either. My wife doesn't even like to ride in it for any distance, even though it is dead quiet inside while cruising. I think the most spongy part of the suspension is the foam in the seats. It squats about a half inch on launches, and dives about an inch in hard cornering, just before the tires let go. I had a real PITA trying to recover the correct pinion angle after adjustment, but it can be done.

[CD Smalley]

Too big of a rear bar, will cause oversteer. Especially in concert with a small or weak from bar.

So let's say you had one of the stock hollow front bars and installed one of the really big, really stiff aftermarket rear bars for a ImpSS, then yes you would get some pronounced oversteer.

[Blue Bowtie]

PST has some nice options for non-stock stabilizer bars and BMR has decent rear control arms. The stock rear uppers have enough range to get you where you need to go. Actually, you can box the stock rear LCAs (providing holes for the stabilizer mounts) and pay attention to the bushing locations and make them work in a dropped position without kicking the axle too far rearward or pointing the pinion downward too much. The BMR LCAs will also get it done, but with possible adjustments.

Like silicon indicated, there is setup time, and careful measurement and adjustment are necessary to make it all work together.

Depending upon the amount of alignment shim in the front UCAs, you may or may not be able to lower the front without offset spindles. Just as GreyGoose mentioned earlier, offset spindles are a more sure way to lower the front while maintaining geometry. The important (and frequently overlooked) factor is the camber under compression. Even with drop spindles, the factory swingarms may not be optimal for getting the appropriate camber decrease on the outer wheel in cornering. Again, there is setup time and adjustment, and possible alteration.

These cars will still dive in heavy track cornering with the necessarily softer compound tires to hold it, but will corner VERY flat in almost anything you can get into in street driving. Face the fact that you're not driving an F- or Y-Body car, and you'll appreciate how tight they can actually be made. You'll also learn to appreciate a bit of oversteer once you get used to it. Those who have learned to drive wrong-wheel-drive vehicles might feel more at home with all that push that they grew up with, but that really isn't considered "good handling" in most circles. If you're really going to push it hard, you should consider installing the heavier (5/8") front ball joints and control arms before going crazy on the stock parts.

[GreyGoose006]

so what you are saying is that i better learn how to adjust my alignment and such if i am going to lower the car

what exactly do i need if i want a rear bar?
is it the kind of stuff i could pull from a car that had a factory one and just upgrade the bar itself, or do i need to upgrade the individual components as well?

[Blue Bowtie]

You need to at least contact a reputable shop to suggest a course of action, or educate yourself in suspension geometry. I'd suggest starting at an automotive frame shop, and not a general repair garage or dealership. That's not to say that some of the techs in general garages and dealerships don't understand the situation, but they'll likely lack the equipment or not be allowed the time to set it up properly, or the shop will not accept the liability for alterations. Most of those kinds of places merely open a file with stock specifications for the vehicle on the rack, attach the optics, and shim or cam the links to the factory specs. Most of those kinds of places have little clue about what each facet actually does for handling and driver feedback, let alone how each facet affect the others in a three-dimensional world. A good frame shop will actually understand these concepts. The car actually has to be pulled DOWN to simulate cornering loads in order to check the swingarm geometry, bump steer, caster increase under compression, and toe on turns. Most places will tell you that toe on turns is impossible to adjust. They're not trying hard enough, or don't really care to customize the steering arms on the knuckles to get the correct radius.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

BTW - CD, The weather is finally better. Did you paint your house yet?

(What a mess of red tape. You're a better man than I am. I would have paid my attorney to chase them down for harassment and his legal fees.)

[ISmellRubber]

Ridetech.com hooked me up with the 9100 shockwaves....well worth the money with an add on compressor, that way you can adjust rear ride hight for that raked look to make'em drool on the street and level the ride when crusin down the highway ( remember your driving a stylish box on wheels aerodynamics change very radically on posture of the vehical) KBY for the front shocks for adjustability as well. Remember body roll can be minimized by good sway bars,front AND rear( which you will need to add. 9c1 springs are the stock way to go. Do not over look control arms and bushing......if these are worn or old this can effect driveability as well! Then when you do upgrades(and I can not stress this enough!) ensure your alignment EVERYTIME. One small change can effect the car's algnment as a whole.

"NO problem is to big for a welder and a beer"

[GreyGoose006]

i have a general suspension question that i might as well add in here

is caster adjustable on these cars?
i think mine is off, because when i take a turn, the outer wheel seems to be
increasing camber, or folding under, so that the outer edge of the tire is getting chewed up.
the camber *looks* to be pretty neutral on the front and is probably tending towards negative when sitting still on flat pavement.

whatever it is, it is bad enough that after only 11,000 miles and 3 tire rotations, i have pretty worn shoulders on my 80,000 mile tires.

[silicon212]

Originally Posted by GreyGoose006

i have a general suspension question that i might as well add in here

is caster adjustable on these cars?
i think mine is off, because when i take a turn, the outer wheel seems to be
increasing camber, or folding under, so that the outer edge of the tire is getting chewed up.
the camber *looks* to be pretty neutral on the front and is probably tending towards negative when sitting still on flat pavement.

whatever it is, it is bad enough that after only 11,000 miles and 3 tire rotations, i have pretty worn shoulders on my 80,000 mile tires.

Yes. You adjust camber by adding or subtracting shims from both sides of the upper control arm mounts. You adjust caster by adding on one side and subtracting a like amount on the other side.

[GreyGoose006]

would that solve the problem i am describing?
its pretty weird
the normal part of the tread is pretty much un worn, but the shoulders are torn up pretty badly


so to add caster i essentially want to "tilt" the spindles back towards the rear of the car, which means i need to add shims in the front and take off in the rear

knowing that i am unexperienced with suspension tuning, is this hard to do?
i dont want to get stuck

[silicon212]

Originally Posted by GreyGoose006

would that solve the problem i am describing?
its pretty weird
the normal part of the tread is pretty much un worn, but the shoulders are torn up pretty badly


so to add caster i essentially want to "tilt" the spindles back towards the rear of the car, which means i need to add shims in the front and take off in the rear

knowing that i am unexperienced with suspension tuning, is this hard to do?
i dont want to get stuck

That could help, but you have to verify that your camber and toe adjustments are in synch as well. Generally, wear on one side is usually related to bad camber or bad toe (toe also tends to 'feather' the edges on the good tread).