Tamiya Acrylic for body

[MPWR]

Originally Posted by jmwallac

Going to have? It's already here!!! It is frustrating, but it's a hobby so I put up with it. My "modelling skills" were much better before I found this forum. Before the days of knowing about orange peel, 50 shades of red for Ferraris, having to polish.... I got in this hobby to learn to be patient, but so far it's a collosal failure. I still enjoy it though. I'd like to post some pics and get feedback, but the stuff on this site blows me away. It's humbling. If I wasn't so penny-wise, dollar foolish, I'd just buy Tamiya TS paints. But where would the fun be in that???

Well if you've come here to learn patience, more power to you, grasshopper.

But seriously, the two most important commodities in building are patience and practice. All of the skills you see performed here can be learned- in fact, they have to be learned, as noone can do them the first time (except maybe Stevenski, sometimes). But it takes doing it, and part of it is accepting the time it takes and the mistakes that learning brings. And it may sound trite, but patience is especially crucial. Since I've slowly taught myself to set the model DOWN and leave it ALONE FOR NOW, my skills have improved immeasurably. Especially in body painting. I regularly have bodies that take a month or more to paint (not to speak of polishing), and I simply cannot do any body in less than 4 or 5 straight days. But damnit if they don't come out now- and I don't strip paint anymore (which saves money). It just simply cannot be done fast.

TS is a great product, and a terrific 'set of training wheels' for learning to body paint. Sure it may cost you $7 a can, but use it right and you can often get two bodies out of a can. And I would happily pay more than $3.50 for a good paint job, anytime.

[jmwallac]

Originally Posted by MPWR

But damnit if they don't come out now- and I don't strip paint anymore (which saves money).

Saving money in this hobby? Go figure. I can't imagine not having to strip paint. It's like a ritual for me. Sometimes I'll do a body 4 or 5 times!

I'm contemplating hitting this body with some oven cleaner. I sprayed it with the automotive acrylic enamel which I've had great success with in the past. It went on glossy, but dried dull even after the 2 mist and 1 wet coat like the instructions say. The clear, same type from same manufacturer (duplicolor) goes on like skim milk and clears up but never gets glossy. I'm resisting the urge to strip.... Must...wait...one...more...day....

[MPWR]

Yeah, let's see if we can hold off on the stripping, and work with what you have meanwhile.

How are you applying the paint and clear- spraycan or airbrush?

And how long did you wait between paint and clearcoat?

It's very possible that the clearcoat can be brought to shine with some polsihing, or perhaps with a thicker base of clearcoat.

[Didymus]

I'm thinking about trying automotive paint over Tamiya primer. Are they compatible?
Didymus

[jmwallac]

Originally Posted by MPWR

How are you applying the paint and clear- spraycan or airbrush?

Spray can for both color coat and clear coat.

Originally Posted by MPWR

And how long did you wait between paint and clearcoat?

Waited 10 mins between each color coat (2 mist and 1 wet). Then waited 15 minutes before applying a mist and wet coat of clear (also 10 mins apart). This is what the duplicolor can recommended doing. I think there is a problem with the clear can as the ball doesn't actually rattle, even after shaking it for 5 mins. It goes on milky and then clears up. One part of the body has a hazy film on it. It seems it will come off with some polishing.

The color coat went on a bit thick though. The panel lines were partially filled and the hood pins are nothing more than blobs. I think it is going to be stripped after all...

Here is a picture with body primed.


Here is a picture of the hood pins after painting.



They are just blobs of paint with no definition to them. I think my wet coat was sprayed too closely to the body. For the wet coat, should you be the same distance from the body and just sweep by more slowly? Is the distance from the can to the body the same for mist and wet coats?

[MPWR]

Too thick, and waaaaay too fast. Relax man, it's not a race. There are no points for getting into the stripping tank first.

First off, it looks like you're having trouble with 'wet' coats. Everyone has their own favorite methods, but I never apply a heavy wet coat. Everything I spray gets built up in light or medium mist coats. Wet coats may give you the instant satisfaction of having it come out shiney NOW, but if you fill in details you've ruined the paintjob. They can be extremely difficult to control, and really aren't necessary. Do it all in steady, even mists. And give it 30-60 minutes in between mist coats.

Second, never apply primer, paint or clearcoat in the same day. Just don't do it. Wait at least overnight between everything. Always. The primer/paint need time to outgas before being covered, and you need time to relax, clear your head, check and correct any imperfections, and think about the next step. A good three step paint job should never take less than three days, at an absolute minimum.

Third, if you're clearcoating, why not leave it until after the decalling is done? They will look better and be protected. Just make sure that when you do that you apply the clearcoat in very light, slow mistcoats. Leave 1 to 2 hours in between mistcoats of clear to let the clearcoat outgas. If you don't, you're inviting the solvants to eat the paint and decals beneith them.

It cannot be done well fast. If you want it to come out, you're going to have to be willing to put some time into it....

For stripping, get yourself some 91 or 99%, and a coverable container to dunk the body in. It's a safer option than oven cleaner.

[stevenoble]

Quick tip on the hood pins.I always find that after painting they are usually lost under the paint layers.Drill a small hole at the location of the hood pins,remove them with a scalpel,sand the area smooth,paint as normal then once your body is finished replace the pins with either photo-etched or white metal versions.They are a lot less hassle in the long term,look miles better and if you get a decent sheet of them they will last ages.I always do the same thing with aeriel bases,washer jets etc.It makes the painting a lot easier.

[klutz_100]

Absolutely agree with MPWR - too much, too fast. How doest it go?... More haste, less speeed....

The only thing that I would add to what MPWR said is that, if you are goinfg to use spray cans instead of your airbrush, stand the can in a bowl of warm (NOT boiling) water before spraying . This will warm the paint and increase it's flowing properties.

[jmwallac]

Originally Posted by MPWR

Too thick, and waaaaay too fast. Relax man, it's not a race. There are no points for getting into the stripping tank first.

First off, it looks like you're having trouble with 'wet' coats. Everyone has their own favorite methods, but I never apply a heavy wet coat. Everything I spray gets built up in light or medium mist coats. Wet coats may give you the instant satisfaction of having it come out shiney NOW, but if you fill in details you've ruined the paintjob. They can be extremely difficult to control, and really aren't necessary. Do it all in steady, even mists. And give it 30-60 minutes in between mist coats.

Every time I do mist coats, it seems to be a rough texture. It's not until the wet coat that I get a decent shine. Unfortunately, this is also about the time that panel lines get filled in as well as hood pins, door handles and the like. If you do all mist coats, how does it ever get a shine?

Can someone do a video from start to finish of how to paint and put it on youtube? I'll host a frickin' party if someone lives nearby and can demonstrate!

Originally Posted by MPWR

Second, never apply primer, paint or clearcoat in the same day. Just don't do it. Wait at least overnight between everything. Always. The primer/paint need time to outgas before being covered, and you need time to relax, clear your head, check and correct any imperfections, and think about the next step. A good three step paint job should never take less than three days, at an absolute minimum.

According to the can, you should wait 10 minutes between coats and all coats (inlcuding clear) have to be applied within 1 hour. This is an acrylic enamel not an acrylic lacquer. I'm not trying to be difficult; I'm just wondering why you do it this way when the manufacturer recommends a different way. Then again, I seem to be the one stripping bodies 3-4 times....

Originally Posted by MPWR

Third, if you're clearcoating, why not leave it until after the decalling is done? They will look better and be protected. Just make sure that when you do that you apply the clearcoat in very light, slow mistcoats. Leave 1 to 2 hours in between mistcoats of clear to let the clearcoat outgas. If you don't, you're inviting the solvants to eat the paint and decals beneith them.

I've done that in the past, but the consensus seems to be that it looks more realistic to apply decals over the clear. I'm also working on the 2000 D2 DTM car at the same time and would hate to screw those decals up. The Tamiya decals polish up nice. I'll try it this time as these decals are cheaply made.

Originally Posted by MPWR

For stripping, get yourself some 91 or 99%, and a coverable container to dunk the body in. It's a safer option than oven cleaner.

I'm an expert at stripping. Paint that is. It works great, except it won't take primer off.

[jmwallac]

Originally Posted by klutz_100

Absolutely agree with MPWR - too much, too fast. How doest it go?... More haste, less speeed....

The only thing that I would add to what MPWR said is that, if you are goinfg to use spray cans instead of your airbrush, stand the can in a bowl of warm (NOT boiling) water before spraying . This will warm the paint and increase it's flowing properties.

I've used the warm can trick with great results. Absolutely helps with application.

I airbrush everything but the bodies. Works great. I tried decanting spray paint into the airbrush, but the texture came out like shit. I guess I have to thin it, but I didn't have thinner. At least with the acrylic, 91% alcohol works great. I may have to experiment more with decanting....

[klutz_100]

Have you ever seen the movie "Days of Thunder" with Tom Cruise? There's a great scene in there at the begining.

Robert Duvall is trying to coach Cruise about tire useage but Cruise is being obstinate. In the end they reach a deal - Cruise will do 15 laps his way, change tires and then do 15 laps following Duvall's advice.

When they compared results, it turned out that Duvall's way was actually faster around the lap and the tires were still good for another 100 laps.

You have already followed the advice on the spray can and you have seen what you get. Now try MPWRs way and see what you get.

BTW mist/light coats DON'T shine. You put the shine on at the very end of the process.

During the paint application process, your primary objective is to gradually build up a sufficiently thick (and no more) smooth layer of paint that is free of grit, shit and orange peel. Painting i slike baking a cake - it's easy to add a tad more flour to the mix but if you put too much in, you cant take it out.

You can (should if necessary) wet sand away any imperfections after EVERY coat including mist coats if necessary.

It is virtually impossible to over thin paint. Better too thin than too thick. Thinner paint just means that you will have to apply more thin coats.

Honestly, your major problem seems to be haste and a heavy hand. If you search the forum you will find the same advice everywhere so there must be something to it

[jmwallac]

Like I said, I'm open to new ideas. I'm so tired of the shitty results I've been getting. The body is in the 91% as we speak, and I'm going to try the way you guys have recommended.

I'll post the results when it's complete.

If you only knew how impatient I am...

[klutz_100]

Originally Posted by jmwallac

If you only knew how impatient I am...

Actually, I had kinda noticed that already....

[CifeNet]

I wrote some techniques about painting airbrush in acrylics, it might help. I mentioned about the shooting distance, but you can use the same concept for the mixture and also air pressure:

http://www.cifesystem.com/paint-hint.html

I use acrylics as much as possible except the finishes on the wheels (Alclad) and maybe for the primer. I found that working with acrylics, you need some learning curve, but once you master it, it works very good and it can give you a good finish...

I used acrylics for the following models, I cleared with acrylics X-22. It does take 2~4 weeks to cure the paint completely. I do bake the models in the dish washer heating mode for several hours after the clear coat...

[jmwallac]

Thanks for the site. I read it and will implement the info.

BTW, is that a stock revell '06 mustang or did you modify the fender flares and front facia? Looks great! And the Porsche too!!!