Ovals versus Road Courses

[doberman_52]

I know your not being insultive. I'm not even sure who Montoya is. When I watch a race, I don't follow a certain racer or pay attention to who each racer is, and I havent been watching races lately tho either, havent had time. Being my senior year and close to graduation, job, and a few other personal things haven't really allowed me to lately.

[drunken monkey]

Originally Posted by doberman_52

I know your not being insultive. I'm not even sure who Montoya is. When I watch a race, I don't follow a certain racer or pay attention to who each racer is, and I havent been watching races lately tho either, havent had time. Being my senior year and close to graduation, job, and a few other personal things haven't really allowed me to lately.

so basically, you don't know what you're talking about?

anyway.
F1 and Nascar are different enough to almost require different skillsets, just like WRC also takes a nother set of skills. That's why you don't often see much overlap between drivers of those three types of racing.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of Nascar because I find it boring to watch and the commentary really annoys me. On the other hand, I find modern F1 is also a bit boring too; me being a bigger fan of '80s and early '90s F1 more than '00s F1. Going further back, I'd love to have been around when the cars were "purer" and when Nuvolari first drifted around Monaco or when the RA272 first screamed its way to a race win or when Lotus' first round effects car started making drivers pass out...

I have to say, it is a bit interesting why the US hasn't taken to "road" courses (don't kid yourself that an F1 track is anything like a real road just because it has corners...) considering that the Panamerica was just as big as the Mille Miglia way back when.
As it has been said, this is probabaly down to accessibilty of the sport.
As some of us should know by now, even going into amatuer racing isn't the easiest or the cheapest thing to do properly.

[TheStang00]

Im talking about Juan Pablo Montoya, former F1 driver. Won Monaco which is supposed to be one of the most difficult tracks in the world... and had six other F1 wins.

[2.2 Straight six]

Originally Posted by turtlecrxsi

I love it when people say Europe has all the turns and America has long straight smooth roads. Apparently, those people have never seen the mountainous regions of America. There are hill climb trials and other such races sponsored by the SCCA that do require turning in a race car. There are even SCCA Rally events.

and come to Europe and you'll see that other than motorways, there are very few straight roads. so comparaitively, Europe does have more bends and narrow roads. and yes, i have been the the mountainous regions of the US. (Vail, Colorado)

[TheStang00]

the mountainous areas of new york are great, not only very curvy, but many of the roads are still dirt. its pretty cool i think. shows how pathetic that state is though. they have all these taxes on damn near everything, yet they cant afford to pave their roads. all the peoples tax money in that area goes straight to NYC.

[jeepgclwj]

Originally Posted by TheStang00

the mountainous areas of new york are great, not only very curvy, but many of the roads are still dirt. its pretty cool i think. shows how pathetic that state is though. they have all these taxes on damn near everything, yet they cant afford to pave their roads. all the peoples tax money in that area goes straight to NYC.

I didnt know there was a New York outside of NYC...For real though, Its got to take constant repaving in a city the size of NYC.

[-The Stig-]

Originally Posted by jeepgclwj

I didnt know there was a New York outside of NYC...For real though, Its got to take constant repaving in a city the size of NYC.

Huh?


New York City, New York.


NYC is in New York...

You know... the joke... New York is so great they named it twice...

C'mon man!... New York, New York!


sigh... you're killin me smalls!

[KamilMk]

Originally Posted by -The Stig-

Huh?


New York City, New York.


NYC is in New York...

You know... the joke... New York is so great they named it twice...

C'mon man!... New York, New York!


sigh... you're killin me smalls!

Ugh... Am I the only one that's confused?

[Dyno247365]

Originally Posted by TheStang00

lol man you're wrecked but yeah I do see it.

[Dyno247365]

New York has unpaved roads? where? I know it gets really hick in the country but I'm originally from long island. Actually there's a road in upstate new york that SHOULD be a race track, the only road you can take to get to Hunter Mountain(ski resort), although it's more thrilling when you take the sharp turns and you find an 18 wheeler scraping through the guardrail, headed in your direction. It's fun.

Sure America does have a fair share of both road courses and rally circuits, no way excluding Pikes Peak!!!

As for different skillsets to drive road courses, ovals and rallies- on road courses, I imagine to be better then other racers, you have to have 2 basic things, a better setup for the car, and to push yourself around turns faster then the other guy. On an oval, it's not that easy to compare them, it's a whole constant high speed chase and more side by side racing. So how do you push there?

[Musashi3000GT]

The Oval thing is a missconception about American racing culture.
We have other forms of racing here like Indy and Grand Am series and such.
Nascar is just the best sponsored one so its the one that we see advertized everywhere.

some day Top Gear is gonna pit a Nascar Champ against a F1 champ against a Rally champ and then we'll see whats what!

[doberman_52]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

so basically, you don't know what you're talking about?

anyway.
F1 and Nascar are different enough to almost require different skillsets, just like WRC also takes a nother set of skills. That's why you don't often see much overlap between drivers of those three types of racing.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of Nascar because I find it boring to watch and the commentary really annoys me. On the other hand, I find modern F1 is also a bit boring too; me being a bigger fan of '80s and early '90s F1 more than '00s F1. Going further back, I'd love to have been around when the cars were "purer" and when Nuvolari first drifted around Monaco or when the RA272 first screamed its way to a race win or when Lotus' first round effects car started making drivers pass out...

I have to say, it is a bit interesting why the US hasn't taken to "road" courses (don't kid yourself that an F1 track is anything like a real road just because it has corners...) considering that the Panamerica was just as big as the Mille Miglia way back when.
As it has been said, this is probabaly down to accessibilty of the sport.
As some of us should know by now, even going into amatuer racing isn't the easiest or the cheapest thing to do properly.

I know what I'm talkin abut, I just dont care to follow who the drivers are. I just don't care. I don't know why, but I just dont.

[TheStang00]

Originally Posted by Dyno247365

New York has unpaved roads? where? I know it gets really hick in the country but I'm originally from long island. Actually there's a road in upstate new york that SHOULD be a race track, the only road you can take to get to Hunter Mountain(ski resort), although it's more thrilling when you take the sharp turns and you find an 18 wheeler scraping through the guardrail, headed in your direction. It's fun.

Sure America does have a fair share of both road courses and rally circuits, no way excluding Pikes Peak!!!

As for different skillsets to drive road courses, ovals and rallies- on road courses, I imagine to be better then other racers, you have to have 2 basic things, a better setup for the car, and to push yourself around turns faster then the other guy. On an oval, it's not that easy to compare them, it's a whole constant high speed chase and more side by side racing. So how do you push there?

ever been around owego? up in the mountains in that area you can find dirt roads. lounsberry in particular.

a big thing on road courses is following the right line and often times you need to be very smooth, although not always. some drivers have different styles. rusty wallace used to win nascar road races and he wrestled the damn thing. on an oval, setup is just as important definatly. but you seem to think its just hammering the gas and driving in a circle when thats not even the half of it. it is still important to follow a good line, however sometimes there can be more than one good line depending on car set up and driver style. for instance if you were to watch mark martin race, usually he will stick to the bottom in the corners. dale earnhart jr often times likes to ride around the top of the track. theres more to it than people realize. you have to set your car up with braking while entering the corner, but not braking like you see in a road race. then you still have to be able to push your car the hardest possible coming out of the corner without spinning it. if you look at a still shot of a car on the bottom you will notice how the back end is slightly farther from the bottom. those guys are in a slight drift. you wanna see skill on a oval, watch martinsville on sunday. i cant promise itll be exciting, and i know it wont be fast. and they are using the retarded COT so it wont be as good cause of that. but i love watching the good drivers, like gordon, earnhart, JJ, stewart, kenseth, and some of the others to see exactly how they pass people and how they get around the track. they really are good. last year (i think it was last year) dale jr. had one of my favorite runs ever at martinsville when he got stuffed in the wall but they just tore off his fenders and he went out there and got a top 5 finish with no sheet metal. he couldnt bump guys to pass cause his tire was exposed, it was a pretty good display of driving.

[Dyno247365]

Actually there's a nice dirt track 25 miles from here. It's called Albany-Saratoga Speedway. If my auto club plays our cards right, we're going to go EVERY friday night at 5 from the campus. We'll see how well that works out, just need cars to hop in and go. I've driven there before but I don't have my car right now, and I have seen the dirt powersliding, and it is GOOD.

When a Nascar gets loose, or sliding on a track, but a countered drift, they've got more speed so that's why NASCAR guys say 'loose is fast'. As far as I have seen, It's not that much the same in Formula...with mid positioned engines you can swing around a lot. Kovalainen(sp?) just did it at australia, did a smooth 360. Maybe they can slide, I just haven't seen it yet.

[turtlecrxsi]

You just reminded me. Where I just moved to I'm now about 10 minutes from the local short round dirt track. I'll have to go check that out for sure.

As for dirt roads here in SC... it's a no-brainer. I probably drive better on the mountain dirt roads than the paved ones... haha

Ya know, I used to maintain an ignorance towards NASCAR but then I learned a lot about the dynamics of it and how much it takes for a team to race, much less finish a race. Those guys have serious skills just like the teams of other forms of racing have serious skills. But I still think WRC Rally drivers have god-like driving abilities and their co-pilots are crazy. As for the WRC fans, some get a little too close IMO. There is an annual scca rally in Cheraw, SC every year in which I've had the chance to volunteer but it's 2 hours from me and I haven't had the time. I think it would be quite an experience to be a part of that. Needless to say, it's a little more involved than your average SCCA parking lot cone battles.