RX-8 and BMW 328i both > 07' shelby GT

[DeViL]

The Roush's and Steeda's do look nice, they have a bunch of them up at the Ford dealer by my house.

Gotta put up a pic of the saleen though.
http://www.exoticcarsite.com/image.p...ang_2005-5.jpg

[BlackGT2000]

Say what you want about the new mustang but there really isn't another car that has as much power as the GT for the same price. You can get an Manual GT coupe for 26000 or so new, the GTO is more money than that always (and I am not talking about used cars.) There really isn't much else out there for the price that is faster. We will see more affordable monster mustangs in the next couple of years I am sure. As soon as this camaro is out and the challenger comes out, you will see a 350 hp GT or something of that nature. Until then, I think that ford is doing the smart thing and not spending money upgrading a car that is already well loved and selling well.

[Gotian]

Originally Posted by BlackGT2000

Say what you want about the new mustang but there really isn't another car that has as much power as the GT for the same price. You can get an Manual GT coupe for 26000 or so new, the GTO is more money than that always (and I am not talking about used cars.) There really isn't much else out there for the price that is faster. We will see more affordable monster mustangs in the next couple of years I am sure. As soon as this camaro is out and the challenger comes out, you will see a 350 hp GT or something of that nature. Until then, I think that ford is doing the smart thing and not spending money upgrading a car that is already well loved and selling well.

Mazdaspeed 3 for 23k anyone? I think that is cheaper than a brand new Stang GT and it is faster if not then just as fast as a stang GT, with a nicer interior IMO.

My question is why does the mustang have to be outdated as soon as it comes out? That 350hp stang your talking about is going to be outdated as soon as the Camaro comes out, they are aiming for well over 400hp and so it the challenger. The only problem GM and Dodge have, which they stated in a magazine, i think R&T, that they cant seem to compete with the pricing the mustang has, but as far as power goes, they beat out ford everytime (as far as I've seen anyways)

[TheStang00]

Originally Posted by Gotian

Mazdaspeed 3 for 23k anyone? I think that is cheaper than a brand new Stang GT and it is faster if not then just as fast as a stang GT, with a nicer interior IMO.

wrong, its not as fast, it has less power, and its FWD.

[-The Stig-]

Originally Posted by TheStang00

wrong, its not as fast, it has less power, and its FWD.

Yes, Because a less powererful, lighter weight FWD econo-rocket has never been as fast as a heavier more powerful RWD sports-coupe.

[TheStang00]

Originally Posted by -The Stig-

Yes, Because a less powererful, lighter weight FWD econo-rocket has never been as fast as a heavier more powerful RWD sports-coupe.

Yes, since thats exactly what i was saying

the mazdaspeed3 0-60 is 5.9, 1/4 miles is 14.3 as done by road&track. thats slower than a mustang gt by a good margin. end of story.

[-The Stig-]

I guess you've forgotten the Dodge SRT-4, Chevy Cobalt SS, Ford Focus ST (euro only). All are FWD econo-rockets that are pretty damn quick, and if driven correctly, can put some hurt on a RWD heavy sports coupe-car-thing.

Remember, the Mustang GT is 3536lbs with 300hp/320ft-lbs and has done a 13.8 @ 103mph with a 0-60 of 5.1 seconds (CD). The Mazda Speed3 is 3180lbs with 263hp, 280ft-lbs of torque and has done 14.4 @ 99mph in the 1/4 mile with a 0-60 of 5.8 seconds (CD).

Is the Mazda faster on paper? Not really, but could it be in the real world? It definately could be. Plus, looking at BulldogSS's track times in his new Mustang GT, you'll see that it's possible that they're on even grounds in the real world. (Nothing against Bulldogs GT, that being his first time at t he track it's not expected of him to run his best, but those are the speeds a large population of drivers will get out of the car.)

Devils Advocate... not everybody will be able to drive the Mazda to it's full potiential either, obviously. So in most cases, the Ford will be the victor over the Mazda, but the Ford will have to work for it because the Mazda is within reach of it.

That's how it's always been with these econo-rockets. They're not 100% there performance wise, but close enough to keep the slightly faster guys on their toes. SRT-4s, even if they were way over hyped were pretty damn leathal.

Also, getting away from drag racing and into road racing, if you read this article you'll see that such econo-rockets ain't too bad.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...000-page4.html

I'll just quote the important bits...

Originally Posted by Car and Driver

Amazingly enough, that performance made the Cobalt SS 0.3 second quicker than the 300-hp Ford Mustang GT. The Mustang was actually a couple mph quicker than the Cobalt on the straightaways, but the Ford suffered from weak brakes and a floppy chassis. After only two laps, the brakes started to give ground and the soft suspension allowed the car to move around too much to go quickly through the high-speed esses of Sector Two. The Cobalt averaged 4.7 mph faster through that part of the track. On the plus side, cornering grip and balance were decent. With more suspension control, the Mustang would have taken better advantage of these attributes.

And cause I know Gotian will point it out:

Originally Posted by Car and Driver

The Mazda RX-8 turned 3:19.0, 1.9 seconds quicker than the Mustang, and the two cars were as different as steak and sushi. The rotary engine lacked punch coming out of the corners, even when we freely used its 9000-rpm capability. Its maximum straightaway speed was only 116.4 mph — 2.9 mph below the Mustang’s and even slower than the Cobalt SS’s. On the other hand, the RX-8’s taut suspension provided great body control and excellent cornering balance. Its brakes were powerful and fade-free. It turned in with sharp precision, and you could use power to rotate the car toward a corner apex. The sector times show how much the RX-8 liked the corners.

[TheStang00]

ok, well none of those are as fast in a straight line either so your not really proving anything, as that is what we were talking about. ive seen the C&D article, its sitting next to my toilet right now.... and yeah bulldog ran a comparable time to what the mazda did in the magazine, but you even hinted at this, whats the chance that the mazda is actually going to run that time? about as good a chance as bulldog had of running a 13.8 or 13.5 or whatever other times we've seen for it. now am i trying to say the mustang is some god car, no, not by any means. you should know me well enough by now to know that im a lot more open minded with cars than that. im a ford first kinda guy, but im not a retard. like you said, it isnt the quickest in the twisties.

[Musashi3000GT]

Well Mustangs are simply not meant to go round corners! Even the top model mustang Shelby GT500 barely gets away from a stock LS2 GTO in a road course. the base model Corvette ran circles around the Shelby!
the Mustang has always been and will continue to be a straight line performer and a street light predator.
I agree the Mustang GT for 27K is a bargain. my only complain is that it only makes 300 BHP. the Nissan 350 Z costs only 1000 dollars more, has a smaller engine (3.5 liter vs. 4.6 liter) and makes just as much power. with 4600 cc of displacement there is alot of room for more power.

[-The Stig-]

Originally Posted by TheStang00

ok, well none of those are as fast in a straight line either so your not really proving anything, as that is what we were talking about. ive seen the C&D article, its sitting next to my toilet right now.... and yeah bulldog ran a comparable time to what the mazda did in the magazine, but you even hinted at this, whats the chance that the mazda is actually going to run that time? about as good a chance as bulldog had of running a 13.8 or 13.5 or whatever other times we've seen for it. now am i trying to say the mustang is some god car, no, not by any means. you should know me well enough by now to know that im a lot more open minded with cars than that. im a ford first kinda guy, but im not a retard. like you said, it isnt the quickest in the twisties.

Ah but you're forgetting the SRT-4 has been known on the rare occasion to dip into the low low 14s. And back when it was produced, the Mustang GT's of 2003 and 2004 era weren't any faster. They were all in the 14.1-14.3 range at about 99-100mph. Their numbers blur into each other enough to be a drivers race. And it still is even with the new 05+ Mustangs.

Have to remember cars like the SRT-4 were kinda ahead of their time...

[BlackGT2000]

Thats good, but they don't make that SRT4 any more. It was certainly a bargain priced performer. I wont take that away from it, but there really is no other car out there that gives you the acceleration that the mustang does for the price. 5 years ago who would say "ONLY 300 HP" I think its great that a number that respectable is so common. I don't think that its completely necessary for anybody who can spend 300 a month on a car to have a 13 second car with a 5-10 year warranty though. As for a 350 hp Mustang being outdated, I doubt it. The mustang is going to last. Its already proven itself. I am sure if you have a 350 HP GT that it will be running mid and low 13s reliably and that will be all you can ask of a car with a base price of 25000. If GM or chrysler puts a 400+ hp motor in a car its going to start well into the 30000 range. I am sure I will love what ever the car ends up being, but I doubt that it will be as affordable as the mustang, or that you will see as many of them on the streets.

[Gotian]

Originally Posted by -The Stig-

I guess you've forgotten the Dodge SRT-4, Chevy Cobalt SS, Ford Focus ST (euro only). All are FWD econo-rockets that are pretty damn quick, and if driven correctly, can put some hurt on a RWD heavy sports coupe-car-thing.

Remember, the Mustang GT is 3536lbs with 300hp/320ft-lbs and has done a 13.8 @ 103mph with a 0-60 of 5.1 seconds (CD). The Mazda Speed3 is 3180lbs with 263hp, 280ft-lbs of torque and has done 14.4 @ 99mph in the 1/4 mile with a 0-60 of 5.8 seconds (CD).

Is the Mazda faster on paper? Not really, but could it be in the real world? It definately could be. Plus, looking at BulldogSS's track times in his new Mustang GT, you'll see that it's possible that they're on even grounds in the real world. (Nothing against Bulldogs GT, that being his first time at t he track it's not expected of him to run his best, but those are the speeds a large population of drivers will get out of the car.)

Devils Advocate... not everybody will be able to drive the Mazda to it's full potiential either, obviously. So in most cases, the Ford will be the victor over the Mazda, but the Ford will have to work for it because the Mazda is within reach of it.

That's how it's always been with these econo-rockets. They're not 100% there performance wise, but close enough to keep the slightly faster guys on their toes. SRT-4s, even if they were way over hyped were pretty damn leathal.

Also, getting away from drag racing and into road racing, if you read this article you'll see that such econo-rockets ain't too bad.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...000-page4.html

I'll just quote the important bits...


And cause I know Gotian will point it out:

haha, you know me too well that im a twisty's kinda guy.


And yeah my argument is basically the same as musashi's, It's a V-8 that is only producing the same amount of power as it's japanese counter parts that have smaller engines and use less gas. GM and dodge on the other hand produce engines that have 400+HP from factory and take advantage of the fact that they have big engines (granted im sure they could tweek it even more to get more)

[Gotian]

Originally Posted by BlackGT2000

Thats good, but they don't make that SRT4 any more. It was certainly a bargain priced performer. I wont take that away from it, but there really is no other car out there that gives you the acceleration that the mustang does for the price. 5 years ago who would say "ONLY 300 HP" I think its great that a number that respectable is so common. I don't think that its completely necessary for anybody who can spend 300 a month on a car to have a 13 second car with a 5-10 year warranty though. As for a 350 hp Mustang being outdated, I doubt it. The mustang is going to last. Its already proven itself. I am sure if you have a 350 HP GT that it will be running mid and low 13s reliably and that will be all you can ask of a car with a base price of 25000. If GM or chrysler puts a 400+ hp motor in a car its going to start well into the 30000 range. I am sure I will love what ever the car ends up being, but I doubt that it will be as affordable as the mustang, or that you will see as many of them on the streets.

It's not the fact that the car has 400 hp that makes it cost more, GM sid it that the reason is because of other things such as the suspension system and the drive train system is the reason why the car costs more than a mustang, which is basically one reason why GM decided against a V6 model for the new camaro coming up, cause it would cost the same as the mustang GT so who would buy it over the GT unless it had the same amount of power in it, but if it did then who would buy the V8 is a simple smaller engine producing the same power would hang with the V8 stang, and also since alot of people go by the whole smaller engines use less gas theory so that wouldnt help much either

[Mr. Luos]

Since there are WAY too many long posts in here...

Saleen = Riced out Mustangs


I don't like any variation of the new Mustang. Great powertrain...nasty body. Much like a butterfaced female.

[Gotian]

Originally Posted by Mr. Luos

Since there are WAY too many long posts in here...

Saleen = Riced out Mustangs


I don't like any variation of the new Mustang. Great powertrain...nasty body. Much like a butterfaced female.

see when i look at the new mustang i think this, GM had the T/A which looked pissed off and in your face like they were gonna sniff you into their intake system. Dodge has the charger now that in your rear view mirror looks at you like it wants you to get the f**k out. And the mustang looks like it has a bit of down syndrome, cause it's got that big droopy unibrow on it, it needs to be plucked (which is why i like the new redesign of the stang, that thing is rocking!)