2000 PA Presidential

[Mad9C1]

You seem like one of those guys that rants about global warming fraud, and how we need bigger cars........... Oh, wait.. no..that would be me.. he he he

I have owned several different vehicles, and probably have given more thought to things others might just ignore.

I can rant all day, but let me just say a few things in support of your thoughts.

My park ave gets milage as good as my bonnevilles did, but is better built, and has more room, and better options. My caprice drove like the PA, and was well built, but, even with the incredible 4.3 v-8 L99 engine, which has 200 HP, the milage wasn't quite as good as the PA.

So, let compare the PA to newer technology. The malibu, which is about 3/4 as roomy as the PA, has 173 hp, which is less power. I assume, being 10 years newer technology, and 3/4 the capacity, and less hp, the milage will be insane. well, it gets 32-34 mpg. Not a huge stride when compared to my larger, more powerful, 10 yr old car, with 127,000 miles.

I must say, in defense of some other older cars.. I really miss my rear-wheel drive. The PA handles remarkably in the snow and rain though. The little kid in me likes rear wheel drive in snow, and dirt roads..

Thanks for bringing up the point about the lack of value in newer so-called earth friendlier cars. I have to comment, that the interior of my 97 PA is solid, and rattle free, and that's more than I can say about most vehicles at 10 years old, and some new vehicles. The bonneville's kept me safe in a couple accidents, so I have to give cradit to the overall build quality, but the park avenue is built a step above that.

Sam B
Tonawanda, New York.

Originally Posted by bigsky

Kind of sounds like a car saleman hard at work. Actually, I think about the same. I would probably own 10 PA's if I could afford. The PA fits my body well...they just seem right. I try other cars and they seem cramped. I like my dad's Grand Marquis (he's die hard Ford/M/L), but it doesn't fit my body right. Have tried center shift but they feel claustrophobic. Plus, driving regularly on winter roads it is nice to have a big car.

Another paradox, these big cars really depreciate (note sticker prices...30-35k). In Montana, there is still lots of room for big road cars. The gas problems of recent years hurt the demand for big cars. And here we are talking about 30mpg (maybe we should not say this too loud). If I was in a big city, I may reconsider (liked both those Regals bnaylor). Maybe my preference was "learned" (my dad likes big cars). It is terrible the LeSabre's and PA's and Olds 88/98 were discontinued...they are taking away the more affordable big cars (at least the used ones). For GM, one now is moved toward Cadillac DeVille. The Lucerne seems small to me. Give me a real Great American Full Size Road Car. Thanks.

BTW...TopherS...good info.

[TopherS]

Sam B. I know what you mean about the strides in technology. I see all these cars advertised with 30 mpg hwy and think..."mine gets that" and all of these very high end cars only get about 25 mpg hwy. Not to mention that the smaller cars get only about 34 mpg...just isn't worth the risk in safety or the compromise in comfort for the extra 4 mpg.

On the Presidential front, I think I know what the others are talking about. Often times, around here, you will find a car labeled "Northwest Edition" or something like that. I asked my brother in law who sold cars in Colo Sprgs for years and he said it was a dealer installed package to attract buyers. I bet that dealers did the same with the Presidential edition. With the seats, I found the Century with the upgraded seats. I like the emblems on the seats...wish they'd do something like that with the PA...I think I'd like it. It's on the Century (called the "Centurion Edition"). I found the Regal with a similar top, but it did not show any seat upgrades. Check it out.

http://www.egclassicsinc.com/invento...001&reqmodel=2

Unfortunately, they don't do anything special with the seats in the PA...only the roof. I really think my seats could use some fluff.

Hopefully, you can have the top safely removed. I like the vinyl tops of the big 80's cars, but IMHO our PA's rooflines just don't seem to lend itself well to these roof treatments, especially, the fake convertible tops.

Good luck in your purchase.

[Mad9C1]

I wanted to wait til I had a deposit on the car before posting any links to it. Anyways, here's where I found this car, and some vague pics too.: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...093816644&rd=1

I welcome any and all comments.

Sam B
Tonawanda, New York.

[Bassasasin]

Mine HERE.. has a different grille than yours.
Dont know if its an option or what.
I dont see the HUD hole on the dash.. Its a bit hard .. I thought they all had it..

Good Luck .

[Mad9C1]

Very nice Ultra. Unfortunately, the Presidential is not an ultra, so, it doesn't have all the perks of the ultra. I was also told the HUD was an option on all models, but, I always thought it was standard with the ultra. I like thye power of the ultra, but the milage is a bit better with the non- supercharged, and the fuel is a little cheaper too, so, I'm not too upset that I'm not getting the ultra. My original goal was to find a real nice PA, and hopefully, an ultra, but as fuel prices started to rise again, I kinda know it'll be over 3 bucks a gallon, so, all the more I leaned toward the better milage.

I saw an Ultra on e-bay recently, which had a black ragtop similar to mine. Mine has the silly presidential emblem on it too. I must admit, the silver car with black ragtop doesn't look as bad as some other's I've seen lately...online and locally. I guess some just have a top that doesn't seem to match the car's color. One uglier one I saw was a silvery looking top on a maroon car. What made me dislike ragtops for the most part is the lumps that look like the bars in a real ragtop, and I never liked the crome accents, especially at the rear of the roof. The PA's seem to have a lower profile ragtop, but it's still a bit ugly to me.

I am now wondering if the ragtop adds any drag, and effects the aerodynamics, and hampers milage at all. I'm a finatic for great milage on the highway.

Sam B.

Originally Posted by Bassasasin

Mine HERE.. has a different grille than yours.
Dont know if its an option or what.
I dont see the HUD hole on the dash.. Its a bit hard .. I thought they all had it..

Good Luck .

[Bassasasin]

I wondered about the aerodynamics too...
Testing the gas mileage I saw that at 55 mph I get 29..and 70 I get 24 indicated MPG..
My back window seems smaller than my 94' back window..that suprised me a bit.

I like the power of the supercharger and for some reason I do get more gas mileage out of my older car.. w/o ragtop. I also note a bit acceleration power in the older car.

Maybe I will find another Ultra and get rid of my LeSabre..

[Mad9C1]

That's great milage, for a supercharged. Is your a/c compressor operational, and was it on at the time you checked your milage? I know mine doesn't engage any more, on my '97, and that probably helps me get better than new car milage. at 55 mph I get a reading of 32-34 mpg, and at 65, I get a reading of 30-32, and around 29-30 at 75 mph. Of course this depends on wind and hills and such, but that's about average on the highway here, which runs along the river, and gets some wind, and has ups and downs. I get slightly better milage on the flat smooth terrain.

I have driven cars with the 3800 v-6 engine for almost 10 years now, and I am still impressed with the milage and reliability we get. Even my supercharged Bonneville wasn't too bad on gas, but I had a habit of accelerating too fast sometimes, just because the engine felt so smooth and powerful. You know that feeling I mean.

Thanks for posting your milage for comparison. Again, you can't go wrong with your car.


Sam B.

Originally Posted by Bassasasin

I wondered about the aerodynamics too...
Testing the gas mileage I saw that at 55 mph I get 29..and 70 I get 24 indicated MPG..
My back window seems smaller than my 94' back window..that suprised me a bit.

I like the power of the supercharger and for some reason I do get more gas mileage out of my older car.. w/o ragtop. I also note a bit acceleration power in the older car.

Maybe I will find another Ultra and get rid of my LeSabre..

[bigsky]

Sam...I think the car looks sharp with the black top. Anyone want to play a quick game of "Car Old Maid" (EDIT: I meant "Go Fish")? I'll start, "give me all your PA's"...OK...(sorry, just kind of hung up on these things right now...).

Seriously, what a great price. Our Montana market is not quite as good, but searching the US market (ebay/Edmunds), it just amazes me to see all the (seemingly) good deals. I suppose it is "trickle down economics" at work. Those with money buy these things new and then basically "give them away" when they get some miles on them. Then other people get great deals...really, a "gift" for us who struggle a bit more to make ends meet. Add to that the foreign market and the exodus from American made (which drives down prices even more). Yes, we do bear the potential maintenance/repair costs with the vehicles as they age (which those with money seem to want to avoid). But with well built cars (and the PA was the flagship), the risk is minimized.

One issue is the upper intake (you may be aware of this). Though the design was improved in 1999, it still may be worthwhile to "sleeve" the upper intake and even relace the lower intake gasket with the aluminum frame gasket. That is the route I am going to pursue with a 1999 with 65K.

My Car:



Not My Car:

[bigsky]

Ok...try again...

My Car:

[bigsky]

Can only get one picture to display at a time:

Not My Car:

[Bassasasin]

Originally Posted by bigsky

Though the design was improved in 1999, it still may be worthwhile to "sleeve" the upper intake and even relace the lower intake gasket with the aluminum frame gasket. That is the route I am going to pursue with a 1999 with 65K.

I have noted other posts that dont recommend the change as a preventative..
Apparently odds are you will never have a problem..

Good Luck

[bigsky]

Originally Posted by Bassasasin

I have noted other posts that dont recommend the change as a preventative..
Apparently odds are you will never have a problem..

Good Luck

Probably true Bass. I do tend to get a little obsessive/compulsive. The 97 I have is on its 3rd upper plenum (now sleeved). But that year had the larger EGR stovepipe. Others have no problems. I had lots of warnings the plenum was failing...major coolant dissapearing with no external leaks. But in my ignorance I drove the car for two weeks before it started blowing lots of white smoke.

The uncertainty of cars is unavoidable. Any of us could walk out on any given day and have a problem. I wish it could be 100% in our control, but of course it is not (and worry just supports the antacid industry).

[Mad9C1]

Bigsky,
I think the market fluctuates for several reasons, but here, since there's salt on the roads most of the winter, the car's value would be less here, but, finding a good car, cheap, is a real task locally.

Some of our close neighbors, like ohio, seem to have some really nice cars, cheap, but the dealers tend to carry some flood cars from time to time, and don't always disclose this.

When buying from a private seller, you are more apt to find a better deal....after all, those who buy new cars, dump off the old one cheap, because the dealer didn't offer much for the trade-in.

I bought my current 97 PA from Ohio, as did my brother, with his 97 Bonne SSEi. My 96 Bonne SSEi came from Maryland, and my 94 Caprice 9C1 came from Albany, New York. I live just north of Buffalo, New York, so, you can easily see I am willing to travel to find a nice car, at a decent price. I think I may have found a better than usual deal this time, according to the compliments you guys have given me so far. I'll be driving 537 miles to get it, and the same to get it home. If all goes well, this should take place this weekend.

As for rich folks selling cheap, this car I am getting belonged to a man that recently passed away, and his son and daughter need to sell it to settle an estate. I assume they don't need the money, or they would have gone through greater lengths to get a better price for it. I think time is essential, and to get the sale done, they are willing to go down on price.


Anyways, sometimes good solid cars at good prices, come from another state..if you live in my state. Years ago, it was said that we can get great cars in PA because their laws are critical on inspections, and a small rust hole fails, so, owners consider the cars to be less valuable, and take them to the local auctions, where they usually sell cheap, and many times it's sold to New Yorkers, looking for a decent car that needs some TLC.

I'm obviously in the market for something a bit nicer, and something I can rely on for a family car. ok, don't get me started on how great the PA's are, and what a well rounded package it is, and how versitile, and roomy, comfortable, safe, sturdy.......well, you get the idea.

Sam B
Tonawanda, New York.

[Bassasasin]

The market is also driven by the gas prices.. PAs are looked upon briefly as not rice burners and more like gas guzzlers by those not in the know..

Also there are alot of reposessions in the aucton lines. Some of those cars have not had TLC. Auction lines provide cars at 60% blue book and less quite often. Dealers often now are solely auction car buyers and their knowledge base is thier profit margin.

Its also quite interesting to see more buying going on from a distance. Its The certification progarams and businesses are building up confidence. It wasn't long ago when it was buyer beware. There is improvement. Online shopping is gaining trust and with feedback options it establishes reputations.

[Mad9C1]

Very well said. I have noticed when we look at kelly blue book, and similar services, we'll find the average dealer will offer less for a trade-in, than we research a trade-in value to be. I am willing to suggest you maybe have just said the reason why.. Simple.. They are probably getting most of their vehicles at auction. Although I bought my current car in Ohio, I made the mistake of trusting a dealer, and I have a car that is riddled with some elctrical issues, and when we were doing a brake job last year, we noticed gravel and mud in the rear spring area, which leads me to believe it was either a flood car, or was at least backed into a creek, or a ditch. The body shows no damage, and no signs or repair, but the gravel got there somehow. With so many cars falling victim to floods and bad weather, it seems we get a surge of great deals, 6-12 months after a catastrophy. I always steer clear of cars that originated where there was a catastrophy a year ago...more or less..

Once again, I know it seemed like an unwritten rule, that you are taking a risk buying from a private owner, but, I feel with a little time, patience, and research, we can all save a bundle buying this way. If we reasearch well enough, we find our purchase price might be low enough to compensate for any minor or routine repairs that might be needed.

I remember my friend told me a story over 20 years ago. He told me about his cousin, who always had money, but was not a favorite in the family because he was a con man. This con man was looking for a way to be legit, and make his family proud, but still fill the urge to con people. He started what is known today as: Buy here - Pay here dealers. As an example, if he bought a car for 1000 dollars, he'd sell it on his lot for 1000 down, and 50 a month. I have noticed a huge growth in this type of car dealer here, especially soon after a disaster down south. I'm not sure if he's still a con, or if he's legit, but, I do know he feels like he's conning people...

I am also willing to suggest a few weeks posting here will probably set anyone in the right direction if in doubt about a car, or a purchase. You guys have helped me know what to expact when I get my car, and assured me I'm getting a decent deal. It helps that you all share my view on what a great car the PA is.


Sam B.
Tonawanda, New York.

Originally Posted by Bassasasin

The market is also driven by the gas prices.. PAs are looked upon briefly as not rice burners and more like gas guzzlers by those not in the know..

Also there are alot of reposessions in the aucton lines. Some of those cars have not had TLC. Auction lines provide cars at 60% blue book and less quite often. Dealers often now are solely auction car buyers and their knowledge base is thier profit margin.

Its also quite interesting to see more buying going on from a distance. Its The certification progarams and businesses are building up confidence. It wasn't long ago when it was buyer beware. There is improvement. Online shopping is gaining trust and with feedback options it establishes reputations.