Guess what I'm doing tomorrow?

[JE123]

Originally posted by SilverLotus340R
well..arent we a happy bunch that FERRARI KICKED MAJOR ASS

I'm happy that they kicked ass.

[replicant_008]

Well the fundamental issue for F1 (as well as TWR in Australian V8 Supercar racing for that matter or even Tiger Woods at Golf) is that dominance by a single team isn't really that interesting.

The TV ratings for F1 have dropped off markedly since Austria and even more since Schuey tied up the championship. This isn't a criticism of Ferrari - they've done a wonderful job with their drivers, cars and tactics. The problem is that to an awful lot of the viewing public (other than enthusiasts) aren't really interested in watching 'dead rubbers' ie races that have no influence on a championship.

Now the tifosi and the Holden Fans might disagree but a competitive challenger makes racers more interesting and adds suspense to the events. Senna's record is all the better for the rivalry with Prost, AJ Foyt with Mario Andretti and of course Hill, Villeneuve, Schuey, Hakkinen etc. I could mention Edwards, Xaus, Bayliss, Corser, Slight and Fogerty too.

Anyway, it looks time they tweaked the rules and brought every one a little closer.

[Moppie]

Originally posted by replicant_008

Anyway, it looks time they tweaked the rules and brought every one a little closer.

But is really ethical?

Why should one team be given a disadvantage becasue they have proven them selves to be better than everyone else?

The whole history of F1 is centered around teams working for large manufactors trying to develop new and inovative ways of makeing the worlds best car. The technology that is developed on the race track does eventualy get applied to the road.
The early deveoplement of ABS and Traction controll systems is directly accredited to F1. However rule changes made to slow down the cars which had the best systems so that those with the less developed systems could keep up has ment that road cars now have more advanced ABS and TCS than the F1 cars do.
The most advanced and sophisticated cars on Earth are no longer that advanced and sophisticated.

Would it not be a better idea to find someway of encouraging the less technicaly advanced teams to work harder, instead of slowing down the faster guys?
I much prefer to watch a race where the team with the best cars, and the best drivers wins, even its a total domination, than watch the team with the best lawyers, and lobbyiests who can suck bernies cock, win becasue they were able to tweak the rules to thier advantage.

[Jay!]

Issues like that are why I don't think I'm really into F1... Knowing nothing about the drivers, cars or track, I'm still 99% sure that Ferrari will win before the race even starts.

I think that's part of the reason why I'm attracted to leagues where handicaps are baked in, like in GT races where the winners of one race are slowed down by adding weight in the next race...

Still, I'd go to an F1 event if I had the chance...

[replicant_008]

Well I have to disagree.

Probably the most interesting seasons in F1 were 1966 and 1982. In 1966, Denis Hulme won the drivers championship in a car that was built and assembled by an independent constructor (Brabham) with an engine cooked up in Australia by Repco!

In 1982, the manufacturers (Renault, Ferrari, BMW) and the teams with works turbo engines were pitted against the Cosworth DFV powered constructors who used a widely-available and reasonably cheap engine - these teams included McLaren, Williams, Arrows etc.

And that goes for technological development - Lotus were a small independent and came up with... ground effects, the wedge shape and pioneered monocoque construction. In fact, I think Minardi were the first with a carbon case gearbox. And that doesn't even include the developments from Tyrell or McLaren, Dan Gurney or Chapparal.

Arguably, some of the biggest teams have been the most conservative with trying out new technology (well up until the current computer based technology fetish). And ABS actually came from aerospace technology.

Some have suggested that engine technology from F1 has a spinoff to road cars - this is a little overstated - sure EFI and engine management has developed a lot in the last few years but this is usually to fulfill emission regulations and turbos have not been part of the F1 scene for a long time.

I wouldn't mind if the best driver won (that's whole idea of parity formulas) - and I think Schuey is the best driver without a doubt. But I'd love to see how he'd go against Montoya, Villeneuve (or for that matter Barrichelo) in similar machinery.

And as for tweaking the rules - you don't think the 'one engine' rule isn't to help the Bridgestone runners (geez I'm cynical) who don't need to scrub tyres as opposed to simply reducing the cost for the other teams.

[taranaki]

here's an idea...instead of having grid positions based on "qualifying" times,why not look at a handicap grid based on championship points?some of the best races that Irecall have happened when a leading team has,for whatever reason,had to start from the back of the grid......

Idon't begrudge Ferrari their constructors points,but it irks me to think that team orders are creating a sport which is about as scripted as WWF wrestling....

[Moppie]

Originally posted by replicant_008
Well I have to disagree.

I believe I might have poorly stated my point, as your referance's to the less finaced teams like Lotus and Brabham winning based on the use of clever enginering, new ideas, and excellent drivers are perfect examples of whats lacking from current F1 racing. The result if Ferrari is romping away with win after win, while the rest of the compitition all sit back and watch.

I believe as a sport it has become so heavily regulated and officiated that there is little room for inovative thinking like there was in the 60s and 70s, and into the 80s. Instead all the cars have ended up looking the same, are powered by the same engine configuration, and all use the same level of electronic aids. (and yes ABS was developed for the 747 and Space Shuttle, but its road going use was first tried and tested on F1 cars).

So what needs to be done, is not Ferrari slowed down, but the other teams speed up.
Lossen some of the rules a little to allow them to develop new ideas, and encourage them to try and test differnt engine configurations etc.

For me the Ultimate modern F1 car would:

Have either a power to weight ratio limit, i.e. you could run a big powerful engine, but it would come with a huge weight penalty, while a smaller less powerful engine could be fitted to a lighter better handling chassis. Of course there would have to be an upper and lower limit for safety.

Or, slow the cars right down. Set a Minimum chassis weight of say 700kg's and a maximum engine size of 1000cc. Then let them use any engine configuration, and even forced induction with a suitable reduction in engine size. Say 500cc with a Turbo.
Small engines yes, but the level of technology and inovation required to be pumped into them would be massive!

Then put restrictions on the amount of allowed down force, but as the cars are slower allow total freedom in aerodynamic design. Something that can is needed to be applied to road cars.

Combined with some restrictions on the level of electronic assitance, and say a limit on brake sizes (at the moment they can pull upwards of 5-6gs under brakes, which is enough to detach your retina) to reduce the braking power and making the fitting and use of ABS practicle.


All combined the idea is to create a Formula that is open to inovation in all areas, allowing the use of almost any engine configuration from a small V8 to a Turbo'd inline 4, or even a straight or V6.
And allow more freedom in car design so that they don't all look exactly the same, with the only way to tell them apart being knowing whos sponsored by who.


The biggest concern at the moment with opening the heavily restrictive rules in F1 is driver and crowd safety. People dying is bad for the sport, and bad publicity.
But slowing the cars down by limiting down force, brakes and engine size over comes this problem, but still allows the cars to be insanly fast both to watch and drive, and modern technological marvels, which is what draws the crowds.