EXTREMELY Squeaky pulley

[searcherrr]

So guess what .72" equals in mm?
Rather guess what 11.52 divided by 16 equals in inches?

.72" is just about 18mm - I just taught myself tonight that what I've never seen or heard of before exists.... an 18mm wrench...... whats even better is that this metric size is in an American made vehicle. Here I was the whole time thinking, "Its a FORD so it uses SAE only." WRRRRRROOOOOONGG !

I know Walmart doesn't have what I need. Now on goes the search and if I can't find it tomorrow locally then I'm just going to cave and order the damn thing. What a f*#$ing pain in my a$$ man. I can't believe no one else had posted this before. I found this info out by doing a Google and reading a rather nice writeup someone did on this issue amongst some others. Here it is: http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/How_do_you_..._Ford_Windstar

[96wWindstar180K]

I checked and on my car the 96 with 3.8Litre engine. A 3/4" 6 point not 12 point fits and a 18mm 12 point fits well. I dont have the 6 point 18mm. Good luck

[searcherrr]

Originally Posted by 96wWindstar180K

I checked and on my car the 96 with 3.8Litre engine. A 3/4" 6 point not 12 point fits and a 18mm 12 point fits well. I dont have the 6 point 18mm. Good luck

Hey, there is no square hole for a breaker bar. It is also an 18mm bolt holding the belt tensioner onto the block. WHICH WAY DO I TURN IT? I'm turning it counter-clockwise and it loosened, but it does not seem to be getting any easier. eck ?

[Freakzilla69]

A drop of motor oil got rid of the squeaking from my idler pulley, which I installed about a year ago along with the power steering pump. But I'm sure that didn't actually fix anything.

[searcherrr]

Well the f'in ride just keeps getting better and better.
I have the idler pulley off.
Nothing ya'll have said has been 100% accurate.
To remove the belt tensioner assembly (not just the pulley on it) its an 18mm bolt head as well as the bolt head of the idler pulley. The ONLY way to access the back of the belt tensioner assembly (there is a square hole after all I think) is to jack up the van, remove the passenger wheel and pray to God that it doesn't fall on you (put in a jack stand for safety if you have it and I do recommend you have it) while you jigger it all around and since the bushings and linkage and all the crap underneath is so old the van moves all over. I managed to loosen the bolt a bit from the top, but it was absolutely a useless cause from up top. You get much better access, space, and leverage from underneath in the more "dangerous" position with the jack in use.
OK - READY - here is where it just gets SPLENDED !!!!! AUTOZONE GAVE ME BOTH THE WRONG PARTS !!!!!!
Neither the idler pulley or the belt tensioner assembly are correct. The design on both are different from the factory setup big time. This finding along with ya'lls directions not being entirely accurate is making me believe that the 1995 3.8L Windstar's since they were the first year made may have been a completely different setup from all years that followed........ UNLESS of course Autozone gave me 3.0L parts instead of 3.8L parts. IN ANY CASE its the wrong parts and now I have a van sitting with the damn pulley off. I don't dare touch the belt tensioner assembly again as its too much damn trouble. I realize it would be good to replace it for proactive reasons, but with all this trouble I'd rather just stick to what the mechanics do and only replace what I know is broke...... which is the IDLER pulley. ON TO finding someone who has accurate parts...... and yes guys..... still no sleep from last night.

[12Ounce]

You are probably gonna have to call a Ford dealer for the correct parts. Be sure to have your "vin" number ready and make him take notice of it. I have read that there were some '95-'96 model year changes on the Winnie engines.

It is annoying that many wrench sets are missing some wrench that we will surely eventually need. 16mm and 18mm bolt heads are out there waiting for us, but you almost never see these sizes included in sets.

On the '99 (don't know about any other year), the pulley is not serviceable on the tensioner device ... even though it is held in place by what looks like a regular bolt. The whole tensioner unit has to be replaced as one piece. In '99, there was some rearrangements made to the layout on the front of the 3.8 (the power strng pump and the ac compr kinda swapped places) and things are a bit more accessible, I think.

[searcherrr]

I think I've been missing something here till now. Someone please confirm. When you turn the pulley bolt on the belt tensioner assembly to the right - that will in turn rotate (under pressure to go back the other way) the arm of the belt tensioner in the opposite direction to loosen the belt?

If thats correct then you have to HOLD the tensioner back while you rethread the belt and once its rethreaded just let it go?????

Do I have that right? Because I think I've come up with a way to do this that would be easier than using any tools..... but instead using a waist belt and putting it around the back of the tensioner pulley or the tensioner arm that goes to the pulley and then easing it forward till the s belt is set in place. Then afterwards since its a waist belt you can easily undo it and pull it out. Good idea?

I hope I understand the belt tensioner bolt thing right. I was wondering the whole time I've been reading to turn it closewise towards the front of the engine on what that could do and it didn't make sense to me before that I didn't have to turn it back counter-clockwise again.....but I think I understand now. Someone tell me please. Thanks.

[96wWindstar180K]

The link you provided explains the method well about replacing the belt and how the tensioner works. The pry bar gives you alot of leverage. However what ever means works for you. The tensioner assembley will pivot up to loosen the belt(or clockwise.). It sounds to me as if you obtained parts for the 3.0 but hard to say without pictures. The tensioner bolt that holds to the block or engine turns clockwise to tighten and counter clockwise to loosen. Righty tighty Lefty loosey. The idler bolt as I remmeber is very long threaded.

[wiswind]

My '96 3.8L has MANY metric bolts.....15mm is very common.
I do not remember what size the idler pulley belt was......but I do remember it being either 18mm or 19mm......
I had to go to Sears to get it.....
The bolt turns counter clockwise to loosten and remove, just like a normal bolt.
I had to put a pipe over the wrench, and then use a short length of 2x4 to get the correct leverage in order to use a sledge hammer to work the bolt free.
That is after several good soakings with P-Blaster over 2 days before scrounging around the garage to come up with stuff to get it off.

I bought my replacement pulley from Advance Auto......if you check online at www.partsamerica.com you should find a Gates brand replacement.

I also bought a new tensioner pulley as well....figuring to replace it at the same time....but found that the bolt for the tensioner pulley was tight...and did not want to put too much pressure on it...as it would most likely damage the tensioner part.....so I decided that I would replace the whole tensioner unit as an assembly......someday.
The factory original is still doing just fine at 175K miles.

To reinstall the bolt for the idler pulley, I just had to screw it back into the hole.
I guess I got off easy....from what I read here.
And I thought I had a tough time..........
Now I feel lucky

[searcherrr]

OK - Well this was definitely a 2 person job. Anyone who looks at the two bolts and thinks its going to be easy is smoking some realy good crack rock and wherever I read it was a 60 minute job that person must've been hitting a lil LSD.

I don't know if the other Windstars after 1995 are setup differently or not, but there was no way this job (for me at least) was getting done from the hood area alone. The only way I could get proper leverage using the "JOIN the WRENCHES" technique was from the bottom with the wheel off and I didn't like that all 4 my jack stands were being used by my CAR currently undergoing a revival as well. So I put the tire/rim under the edge frame of the van so that of cours if it fell it would hit that and not go to the ground. I used a huge 1 3/4" combo wrench for leverage against the 15 mm wrench from underneath and eventually I gained full tension release and my friend was able to push the belt under the stupid f'in idler pulley wheel.

PROBLEM TO NOTE: I had removed what I didn't know was the upper alternator mounting bolt (for hand clearance from the hood area to the stupid tensioner belt) BEFORE getting the belt back on track...... So you guessed it we sang a song of success and then realized that once everything was all together again that I couldn't align the upper alternator mounting bolt with the black steel bar mount point...... WHY O WHY? BECAUSE NOW THE TENSIONER IS PULLING THE ALTERNATOR DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWNNN WITH LOTS OF FORCE. Plan was to release tension again, friend lift the alternator and thread the bolt back in....... WEEEEELLLLLL it JUST WASN'T THAT FRIGGIN EASY. I had to be lifting off the exact amount of tension necessary so that he could align the alt mount bolt precisely right and since I wasn't up there to verify that before he started threading him all I could do was trust him....... annnnnd I don't know..... whether it was him or not the bolt is stripped. It is 98% in, but will not go the extra 2% - This turns out to be a problem for a big reason.... there is a grounding wire from that alt bolt to the van frame metal. Now I try and crank the van a couple times really short-like to verify belt alignment and its good.... but for some reason now the van won't start after 3rd time try. Going off of "what's changed" the grounding wire is loose between the alt bolt head and the black mount point -jiggly would be the word. Its probably about 1/8 of an inch...... but that tiny ass bit seems like just enough to mess with the van. I have yet to test the voltage which I will do tomorrow as I didn't sleep last night. The alt bolt is in there tight, but it just spins now when I try to tighten it.

Trying to figure out what to do because taking the alt out isn't what I want here are my options:

1. Jam some aluminum foil in the void space and electrical tape it well. Woulid aluminum work?

2. Jam a u shaped wire connector thick enough to fill the void to make for a good solid ground again.

3. Run a wire to the stock ground wire and mount it somewhere else on the alt. Would this be ok or would I need to make sure and ground to the same upper mount bolt again for whatever reason?

Obviously I do not want to replace the alt. I thought about going to a machine shop to have the thread issue fixed, but no idea on cost for that.

Questions I'd like help with:
1. Anyone got any ideas?

2. Would removing this 1 ground wire cause the van not to start?

3. Is it possible to mess up the timing when performing said work? belt removal, pulley removal, etc...? I ask because the van seems to run a little rough since all this. Its not as smooth as I'd gotten it and I had it pretty smooth.

4. Is Aluminum ok to use for conducting electricity between the bolt head/washer and alt bracket?

MOST IMPORTANTLY THE DAMN SCREECHING AND SQUEALING IS NOW F'IN GONE !!!!!! I HAD IT RIGHT. IT WAS THE IDLER PULLEY. I GAVE UP ON REPLACING THE BELT TENSIONER AS I COULD NOT LOCATE ONE THAT MATCHED THE DESIGN OF MY FACTORY TENSIONER AT ALL AT DIFFERENT PLACES EVEN, ALTHOUGH I'M DEBATING IF THE SHELL DESIGN OF THE TENSIONER IS NOT OF ISSUE AND MAYBE THE 3RD PARTY ONES WOULD'VE FIT IF I PUT THEM IN.... BUT THEY JUST DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THEY WOULD. In any case the belt tensioner is still alive and well and I'm just sticking with that because I didn't want to deal with the removal of it after my ordeal. The van runs, but does not seem to be running correctly. Though, there is a slight vibration/shutter when it runs now (even in idle) and that was not there before at all. It sounds good on the outside, but I don't feel that its running right on inside.

[KimMG]

You need metric wrenches. S.A.E. will not fit properly.

[Freakzilla69]

At the parts store they sell a "belt removal tool", which is a long handle with a few different sized very shallow sockets and box wrench heads, for about $20. You can get the belt off any car in under a minute.

I've done it with a wrench before, invest in a belt tool, it's worth it.

[searcherrr]

NO hits on the starting problem? I know I typed a lot, but any suggestions would help. Thanks.

[LeSabre97mint]

Originally Posted by Freakzilla69

At the parts store they sell a "belt removal tool", which is a long handle with a few different sized very shallow sockets and box wrench heads, for about $20. You can get the belt off any car in under a minute.

I've done it with a wrench before, invest in a belt tool, it's worth it.

A belt removel tool is the way to go! I would't be without it.


Yes the 95 does have a differnet pulley set up. Yes there is very little room to work in the belt area. Yes the Windstar, and for that matter, all of our cars now use metric fasteners. I own both metric and inch wrenches and sockets.

I was working on my 98 getting items striped off of it for the body guy to replace the bent frame section. I pulled a lot of stuff of including may ground. Yes the engine didn't start until I put a ground back on. When I drove it over to his shop (about a mile or less) the check engine light was on.

Keep in mind that most of the guys on this forum only work on one year and don't have experience across years and know the differences.

I had to read your post a couple of times to find the part about your van not starting. It was hidden in a paragraph.

You can take your alt to a machine shop and have a Heli-coil installed and your threads will be better than new. They shouldn't charge you more than around 15.00. It doesn't take that long. Having the correct drill bit and tap along with having the coil inserts on hand is the harder part. Make sure the instalation "tang" is removed before your put your bolt in the coil. If it's not you'll ruin the coil.

Having the correct tools makes the job a whole lot easier.

Regards

Dan

[searcherrr]

Originally Posted by LeSabre97mint

I was working on my 98 getting items striped off of it for the body guy to replace the bent frame section. I pulled a lot of stuff of including my ground. Yes the engine didn't start until I put a ground back on. When I drove it over to his shop (about a mile or less) the check engine light was on.

You can take your alt to a machine shop and have a Heli-coil installed and your threads will be better than new. They shouldn't charge you more than around 15.00. It doesn't take that long. Having the correct drill bit and tap along with having the coil inserts on hand is the harder part. Make sure the instalation "tang" is removed before your put your bolt in the coil. If it's not you'll ruin the coil.

Regards

Dan

Dan, thank you very much. Having confirmation is a really good thing. I feel kinda silly now cause I have dropped the van off as of tonight as it stalled on me again and wanted to let them figure it out. I'm worried with having tried to start it with the loose (not off; but loose) ground connection that I might've burnt something out somewhere or if possible ruined the timing? It is very odd though because it will start sometimes and other times not without having changed anything in between tries.

Does it matter where on the alt you ground from? I was going to hook up another wire from the a smaller alternator bolt to the wire on the bolt I've stripped. You think that would work?

Also, I was going to solder between the stripped bolt head and the black mount point for continuity all the way across.

What do you (or anyone else) think of those ideas?

Ultimately yes I want to bring it to a machine shop and do what you said cause I don't like it the way it is, but its holiday time right now and a little hard to get service.

It is very disturbing to me though that the van can pretty much be disabled if someone were to come along and clip that ground wire. Thats kinda foofy if you ask me.