Turbo B16a VS Stroked B16a

[Bleebdat]

Mellowboy: I wasnt trying to offend anyone, but rather making a generalization of the two main groups of people NA and turbo. And not to disrespect you, but almost any NA honda engine even frankenstein ones do not require any tuning. So they wouldnt run like sh*t. The reason tuning is so much more important for a FI car is that you are drastically changing Air/Fuel ratios to the point that stock setups will not compensate enough.

EF: do you plan to still have a streetable car with that planned setup? I think 275-300 is pretty far out of reach. Also to reach those #'s you are going to be taking bigger gambles than going b20, afterall with lsvtec you are going to have mostly aftermarket to begin with.

And finally as for comp #'s it really depends on what engine you have the new celica/matrix engine is 11.5/1 and will not detonate on even 87 gas, and was turbo'd to 7 psi by SportCompactCar running 91 octane, but older engines might have problems reaching goals like this, its all about that tuning.

[mellowboy]

Bleebdat: Where did you get the idea that N/A does not require tuning? In order for your car to run better it needs to be tuned. When goin N/A you messing up the air fuel ration also. In order for it to run rite you need it tuned. IF you mess with ANY stock engine to put in aftermarket products such engine internals its always best to get it tuned. The guy who is runnin 12's had his car tuned? Also when i went to Garage Kwai theres a guy that was upset about is type r. He was disappointed that he only has 190 at the wheels when he took it to a different shop. So when he went to Garage Kwai they tuned it for him and it came out to be 212 at the wheels. He's all motor. Oh another one is my friend with the 2000 Si with a b18c1 ( blew up the b16) he's running 167 at the wheels and 113 lbs of torque and i don't know why but thats not the issue rite now. He's all motor. Before he got it tuned he was doin 146 (its a 94 gsr motor ...old). DO you see what i'm sayin though? NO matter whats ur plans for your car u always need it tuned.

[EF_LSVtec]

I'm putting in US Type R pistons and shotpeened LS rods. Anyway, it's slightly lower compression than JDM and Civic Type R. Comp should be just on the limit...I hope..

[Bleebdat]

Mellow you are missing my point, an untuned type r makes 190, an untuned turbo engine more than likely blows up. That is why most people would rather not go turbo. The problem is people have started to think turbo almost equals cheating.

[EF_LSVtec]

bleebdat, one of the reasons why i picked type r parts is because I plan to use my car as a daily driver commuter sleeper, hehehe...and maybe occasional autocrossing. realistic hp that I expect with this set up is between 200-250hp...

[civickiller]

i read somewhere that if you build a ls vtec with a b16a head and use b16a pistons then you get a comp ratio of like 11:1. then the article said that if you use a gsr head then its more cause of the cc's the head flows. so you comp ratio with the gsr head with b16 pistons is already higher than 11:1. but if you then decide to throw in type r pistons which will only up the compression which would leave it close or higher than 12:1. which i think kind makes its not as streetable

check out this site http://www.hondaswap.com/articles/index.php?id=6

see it says that with b16 head with type r pistons your yielding a 12.2:1 then add .2 for the gsr head so your looking at 12.4:1, that pretty high for a street car. probably not streetable unless you run high octane gas

[mellowboy]

Originally posted by Bleebdat
Mellow you are missing my point, an untuned type r makes 190, an untuned turbo engine more than likely blows up. That is why most people would rather not go turbo. The problem is people have started to think turbo almost equals cheating.

No the type r wrongfully tuned made 190 atw. With the correct tuning on whatever set up he has done to it got 212 atw. My friend has a turbo gsr and he didn't get it tuned and its running ok now. If he wants to run better then he should get it tuned. Even if its fully built and its untuned u can still drive it but its not gonna run as good as tuned. I understood what u said thats why i'm sayin this to you....chump.

[EF_LSVtec]

thanks for the info civickiller...if you look at no 10. it says with a GSR head you up your comp by .2 compared to a B16...I have a P73 pistons (00) 11.4 total comp with B16 + .2 = 11.6 with a GSR, still under 12 and barely streetable. I have a very skilled mechanic and hopefully he did his numbers correctly for what my ultimate goal is.:flash:

[mattscivic]

i think the turbo b16 a would win but i like turbo qqqsssshhhh

[EF_LSVtec]

I like turbo too...but wouldnt pass smog. And if you get one that would pass (Greddy), its slow as a slug...well, maybe not that slow...but slower than a Drag 3. A friend of mine had an old GTI with oettinger twin cam engine, turbo-intercooled, pumping 290hp..the G-force was unbelievable. But there are a lot of pros and cons...He said that if you've been running your turbo for a while, you cant just shut it off and would need a turbo timer...lets say your in an intersection and accidentally killed the motor on first gear, then you risk breaking the turbo.

[civickiller]

oh my bad ef_lsvtec i thought you said you were gonna run civic type r pistons with your ls vtec

i used to be an all motor guy. yeah all motor rules kind stuff but now i turbo guy. i get off on the sound of a blow of valve

[5 YEARS RUNIN]

NO DISRESPECT INTENDED BUT , THE B16 IS POSSIBLY ONE OF THE BEST MOTORS EVER MADE.(1)INEXPENSIVE, ALOWS EVERY ONE THE CHANCE TO SWAP .(2)WITH IT SO CHEAP YOU CAN BUY A B16 SWAP AND AN LS SHORT BLOCK IN ORDER TO BUILD A NICE STOUT LS/VTEC GOD WILLING ONE OF THE BEST COMBO"S EVER (LOTS OF 11.00 AND UNDER 1/4 MILE CRX ALL MOTOR)(3) IN TURBO FORM IT IS CAPABLE OF NEAR 300HP 1BAR OF BOOST . I'VE SEEN IT WITH MY OWN EYES. ASFOR S/C TRIM. HEREIS WHERE IT ALL GOES WRONG ! I PERSONALY WITNESSED AN ALL MOTOR B16 NOTHING BUT BOLT ONS IN AN EG HATCH SMACK THE S$%# OUT OF A CRX B16 JACKSON RACING SUPPER CHARGER AT 11LBS OF BOOST PROBLEME IS S/C CREATE TO MUCH HEAT IN THE COMP PROCESS AND IT CAN NOT BE COOLED EFFECTIVLY SO YOU END UP GIVEING UP PERFORMANCE . IN THE END YOU COULD BUY ALOT OF NICE PARTS FOR YOUR 1/4 MILER FOR THE $2700.00 THAT WAS SPENT ON S/C PLUS INSTALL IS A PAIN IN THE A$$ THANKS FOR YOUR TIME ,AND THATS MY 2 CENTS

[spy54]

is turbo now cheating b/c last i heard nitrous oxide was cheating watch now na will be cheating wtf do what you gotta to win

[mellowboy]

Originally posted by spy54
is turbo now cheating b/c last i heard nitrous oxide was cheating watch now na will be cheating wtf do what you gotta to win

No its not cheating. Not original but its also not cheating!