92 grand am 2.3L SOHC engine mount

[r1star]

You're not in as much trouble as you think!- Don't give up just yet- I've reworked four of these extremely not fun and almost identical motors: Two '94 2.3's, a '97 2.4, and recently (fingers are still bleeding) a '98 2.4- There's the stat's, now to talk you out of giving up- I know it's recommended you don't put the jack under the oil pan, but in this case the motor is light enough even with the tranny piggybacking that you just have to stick a piece of wood in between the jack and the motor- that'll give you enough clearance to lift it up and remove that front bottom mounting bracket- It's only four bolts (two 13mm and two 15mm) and then you've got the four oil pan polts behind it with the head facing down- After that you're homefree to get the timing cover off as long as you've removed the pain-in-the-but and not easily seen 8mm bolt behind the chain tensioner assembly- After this, should be pretty easy to finish out. Just make sure you take your time to get e-thing back together in order and correct, or you'll be knocking holes in the side of your garage when you "remember you forgot" some little detail in re-assembly. Hope that helps, good luck!

[GrandAmNot]

Slade901, I don't think the heat will help much unless you can heat what the bolts is screwed into. I didn't need any heat when using the Bolt Out. The 5-piece starter Bolt Out set is Sears item # 52106. There is also a 5-piece add on set or the full set. This is the Sears web page for the set I got:

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...seBVCookie=Yes

The bolt was in between sizes so I filed down the bolt head a bit to get the Bolt Out ALL the way on.

[GrandAmNot]

Thanks, r1star - I have been using a block of wood between the jack and pan and the tensioner assembly is sitting here next to the computer and my cup of coffee. The plunger, spring and ratchet pieces came out.
Was thinking about building a bridge across the wheel wells or the strut mounts to hang the engine - its high enough and just need to keep it there.

PS: any idea why I have to log in once, write a note, submit reply, but have to log in again before its accepted? Maybe there's a time limit.

[Slade901]

GrandAmNot, thanks for the link. I hope you don't mind me piggy backing on your original post.

Does the engine needs to be raised up a bit so I can acces the 3 hard to remove bolts on side mount engine plate? I don't have a cherry picker just yet. Do have I have to raise the engine using a block of wood underneath the oil pan and how far to do I have to raise it up? I'll be taking pictures along the way so I can share it if I get it finish getting to the head gasket

[gmack221]

Originally Posted by Slade901

GrandAmNot, thanks for the link. I hope you don't mind me piggy backing on your original post.

Does the engine needs to be raised up a bit so I can acces the 3 hard to remove bolts on side mount engine plate? I don't have a cherry picker just yet. Do have I have to raise the engine using a block of wood underneath the oil pan and how far to do I have to raise it up? I'll be taking pictures along the way so I can share it if I get it finish getting to the head gasket

It helps give you more room if you raise up the motor, disconnect the motor mount that connects to your passanger side wheel well, then place a floor jack under the dog bone style motor mount on the passanger side (looks like an 8). you can raise it up until the axle shaft hits the bottom of the wheel well, but I recomend you keep it a little lower then that to ensure you don't damage the cv joint on the axle shaft. DO NOT JACK ON THE OIL PAN, it isn't strong enough to support the weight of the motor, some people get lucky by putting a piece of wood between the oil pan and the jack, but I would strongly advise against it, i've had my pan off and its only about 5mm thick, thats thin enough to crack or break under the weight. just put the jack under where the dogbone connects to the motor and you'll be fine, and don't have to use a block of wood, and no chance of breaking the oil pan.

[GrandAmNot]

Gmack221 -
When I first saw the word 'dogbone' in an earlier post I figured it was the aluminium part of the upper mount. Is the 'dogbone' the cradle half of the lower mount? Just a terminology thing if it comes up again.


Slade91 -
Have raised and lowered the engine a few times depending on what nuts and bolts I was trying to get at. Pulling the caliper off the break, the spindle out of the strut, and the axle out of the spindle may or may not have been necessary but it lets you raise the engine quite a bit. I put the jack under the extension on the lower mount cradle and a piece of 2x4 or pipe between the the head and fire wall to keep the engine from tipping back.

Loosening the AC compressor to remove the lower mount cradle to get at a couple more oilpan bolts may not have been necessary either. The chain housing may have come out with just the four bolts out of the end of the oilpan. The lower right chain housing cover bolt has a nut on it for a small bracket to the AC compressor and I had only taken the nut off. The whole bolt comes out after the cover is removed. Though I suspect the chain housing isn't going back in as easy and will probably have to at least loosen the oilpan anyway.

There's not much room between the AC compressor and the radiator and bottom hose. Keep an eye on that when jacking the engine. The engine may move forward too and pinch the hose or dent/damage the radiator. Was putting pieces of 1x2 between the lower mount cradle and the the heavy rail that runs north and south just below the cradle. It seemed like a safe thing to do and the engine doesn't rock and roll so much when wrenching and I could still use the jack for other things.

Got the camshaft housing off, picked up all those mini pistons that fell off the lifters and rolled all over the place, and then the head. The big silver ring in the gasket around the cylinder nearest the chain housing was cracked in two places. Don't think I did that when lifting the head. Quita a bit of carbon (?) deposits on the other three piston tops and their domes on the cam housing. Wonder if the coolant got cooked/burned in those three cylinders or if the coolant 'cleaned' some of the deposits off that first cylinder.

Will get some prices/estimates on gaskets, bolts, head inspection, repair, and/or replacement and whatever else I might need. Don't mind the effort and education but don't want to spend too much. How much is too much? I'm not really sure yet.

[GrandAmNot]

Happy Memorial Day and weekend.
Had the head checked and no cracks or warping.
Can get the timing chian and head gasket kit for about $340.
Maybe I will actually drive this thing out of the garage.
Hope I can clean the block top without getting too much stuff down the oil and coolant holes.

[skibum1111]

As long as you don't put a bunch of metal down the oil galleys it shouldn't be much of a problem. Just make sure to change the oil soon after the job is done, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to flush the cooling system as well. As for the oil pan, when I changed the head on my 95, I didn't have to loosen the pan, just the bolts inside the timing cover.

To clean the top of the block off, if you have access to air tools and an air grinder, get the purple heads for it, they do an excellent job.

[gmack221]

While you have the head off you should clean/replace the oil check ball in the passanger side rear corner of the engine block. I broke mine getting it out, but it was dirty so it was good to replace it, that will be a cheap dealer part, but you may need to be there to explain which part it is. Try using a drill bit to remove it (or an easy out), its just a thin piece of sheetmetal in a round hole with a ball bearing in it, so when the oil pump quits pumping oil all of the oil doesn't flow back into the oil pan, but with years of build up it can become gummed up.

Yes your head gasket was bad, between the head and the motor you have 3 different passages, the metal rings seal the combustion chambers (cylinders), the round hole in the back corner is for the oil that feeds the cam(s) and lifters, and coolant passages (normally a triangular shape). If theres lots of carbon where the metal ring broke then you probably didn't get coolant into the cylinders, but it is possible, my guess is it was pushing exhaust into the coolant passages or out between the head and engine block.

sounds like your on your way to getting it back on the road.

[GrandAmNot]

Thanks for the tip. I see what you're talking about. If the pump stops then some of the oil will stay up with the cam and lifters? Item #80 on at least one official GM exploded view image of the engine. $22.33 at the dealer. Just let the drill bit or easy out get a bit of a grip and then just pull it out?

Can get most everything I (think) I need at Murray's Discount Auto for about $250 US for a gasket and chain kits plus bolts and such OR the official GM parts dealer's, high priced, most items sold seperatly, parts and pieces for about $550 US. Not sure if its a tough call or a no brainer. Any popular consensus on good/better/best parts manufacturers?

Did I say that I got my head examined? Its not cracked or warped.
And the one from the engine is in good shape too!

[skibum1111]

Make sure its a graphite head gasket, and don't forget new head bolts. I didn't go to the dealershits for my parts, just to advanced auto, cost me around $275 for everything, bolts, timing chain set, sprockets etc., and I have a dohc motor. sohc should be a little less.

[GrandAmNot]

Howdy folks. Been sidetracked for a while.
Pulled that oil check valve out of the block and cleaned it. It looked pretty good and the ball was clean and free to bounce up and down and so put the same valve back in.
Got the graphite headgasket, head, cam gasket and cam housing and cover back on. Put some grease on those mini pistons/lifters to keep them in place when installing the cam housing.
Water pump had some of that dexcool jelly in it and the bearing seemed a bit rough and a small o-ring was damaged (by me?). Baught a new pump and flushed out that big bent pipe that runs down under the engine and back up to the radiator. Lots of junk in there. Reminded me of the traps under a sink.
Timing chain, sprockets, guides, new tensioner, new gaskets, cover and bolts back on. Top and bottom timing gears look dead on.
Axle, spindle, rotor and caliper back together.
Next up - manifolds, fuel rail/injectors, lots of hoses and connectors.
Got one baggie marked 'engine/trans bolts' with four bolts in it. Hope I figure out where they go BEFORE a bunch of stuff is in front of where they go.
The temperature is rising and so are my expectations for success.
Thanks again, folks, for all the help.

[Slade901]

Folks, I'm still on the same path on trying to fix a coolant leak at the head. How did you manage to hold the harmonic balancer while removing the large bolt?

[gmack221]

Originally Posted by Slade901

Folks, I'm still on the same path on trying to fix a coolant leak at the head. How did you manage to hold the harmonic balancer while removing the large bolt?

If you can just use an impact, it should come out without too much trouble that way. But if you don't have the impact or the socket, put the belt back on, put the spark plugs back in, the put the wrench on the bolt & hit it with a hammer until it break lose, the second is a harder way, but still works.

[GrandAmNot]

Tried the socket/ratchet/hammer first also with no luck. Then tried the compressor and air gun but the old compressor was a bit short on the grunt meter. Ended up with a long ratchet extension through the balancer and under the engine or maybe between the engine and the lower mount cradle and the bigger hammer method. It worked but I wondered afterward if I got lucky not breaking the balancer.