Another reason for the world to hate the US

[Flatrater]

I have to agree with Yogs and Carrnutt.

It's the American money and we have the right to limit who gets it. I would rather have all the tax money collected used in the US.

When a person makes a donation doesn't he or she choose who gets it. I'm sure you would not part with a dollar in a cause you don't believe in.

If you don't want to have a child then keep in your pants. What kind of consuling is needed for these people? Don't they know sex can lead to having children. Sorry no one needed to spend one dollar on me to know that sex can cause children.

[Muscletang]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

It's the American money and we have the right to limit who gets it. I would rather have all the tax money collected used in the US.

When a person makes a donation doesn't he or she choose who gets it. I'm sure you would not part with a dollar in a cause you don't believe in.

If you don't want to have a child then keep in your pants. What kind of consuling is needed for these people? Don't they know sex can lead to having children. Sorry no one needed to spend one dollar on me to know that sex can cause children.

Checkmate

[03cavPA]

The good old Golden Rule: the guy with the gold makes the rules.

If they don't like it, they can go find their own damn gold.

[thrasher]

A lot of you lack global perspective and seem to be able to think only about what impacts your life and what is best for you. There are actual people living in those countries who need our help without any oppressive and forceful religious bullshit. We are lucky bastards to have been born and live in a place where money growns on trees compared to most of the rest of the world, and I'll be damned if i just stand by and watch you arrogant elitiests piss all over people who aren't as fortunate as us. You don't deserve to keep your money that you have earned any more than they deserve to have respectable living conditions. Stop thinking you deserve better than other people. We're all humans, and we have a responsibility to help those who are less fortunate without shoving our ideology and religion down their throats.

[03cavPA]

Call it elitist if you like, but I don't see anything wrong with expecting people to adhere to some conditions if we pay their bills. Your employer expects you to follow his rules if you receive his money in your paycheck.

I don't see it as arrogant at all. I agree with flatrater; we should rather use that aid money to help our own poor and disenfrachised here in this country.

[fredjacksonsan]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

Thats a piss-poor moral equivelence.

You're right. And I thank 2-stroke for saying it the way I meant to say it.

[directory]

who cares...as long as i get laid...

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by thrasher

A lot of you lack global perspective and seem to be able to think only about what impacts your life and what is best for you. There are actual people living in those countries who need our help without any oppressive and forceful religious bullshit. We are lucky bastards to have been born and live in a place where money growns on trees compared to most of the rest of the world, and I'll be damned if i just stand by and watch you arrogant elitiests piss all over people who aren't as fortunate as us. You don't deserve to keep your money that you have earned any more than they deserve to have respectable living conditions. Stop thinking you deserve better than other people. We're all humans, and we have a responsibility to help those who are less fortunate without shoving our ideology and religion down their throats.

Don't stand by - send in your money. I've got no problem with you sending every cent you make to those you consider less fortunate. I spend a few percent of my income on charities that do just that. What I object to is the government taking my money and handing it to someone else. I also object when the person standing with hat in hand doesn't want any restrictions on it.

When I donate - its to specific charities that spend the money in a way thats acceptable to me. Thats not shoving any ideology down someones throat. The people on the other end are free to not take it.

Stop thinking that its the governments job to confiscate what isn't theirs and give it to whomever they identify as 'needing' it more.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by thrasher

A lot of you lack global perspective and seem to be able to think only about what impacts your life and what is best for you. There are actual people living in those countries who need our help without any oppressive and forceful religious bullshit. We are lucky bastards to have been born and live in a place where money growns on trees compared to most of the rest of the world, and I'll be damned if i just stand by and watch you arrogant elitiests piss all over people who aren't as fortunate as us. You don't deserve to keep your money that you have earned any more than they deserve to have respectable living conditions. Stop thinking you deserve better than other people. We're all humans, and we have a responsibility to help those who are less fortunate without shoving our ideology and religion down their throats.

Using tax dollars to buy condoms so 2 people can get it on is wrong. If I am not getting any I sure don't want my tax dollars helping someone else get some.

But in truth handing out condoms is a bandaid fix which cures nothing and validates the practice.

What ever happened to working and earning what you own? No one ever handed me a box of rubbers or anything when i needed it. I did it the old fashioned way by working hard. My boss in the dealer gets a paycheck from the money I produce and every day I hear him say "Make me some money". What I always say is either lower your standard of living or start earning your own pay check. Everyone has an opportunity to advance themselves most choose to sit on their hands and claim poor mouth. Most people rather wait for a handout then work and struggle like some of us.

I've been a smoker for many years now and on every pack of cigarettes is a health warning, granted this warning doesn't work but what about spending money and getting these people a tatoo on their organ stating something like, "using this can cause kids" or "If you want to play you must pay". At least that would stop some poeple unlike a box of free condoms.

[cody_e]

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

The abortion/prevention debate has been done, Muscletang. I'm talking about the US dictating that in order to get aid, they have to enact a certain law. Though in a farfetched, warped kind of way that could be considered to be a qualification they would have to have to get the aid.

Imposing your country's morality on another country is wrong; and not giving people the aid you would otherwise give them because of their own internal decision is wrong, plain and simple.

You realize if I wrote a check for Hurricane Katrina relief to the Red Cross they can only spend it on Hurricane Katrina and not Hurricane Rita? Like mentioned before it's the US's money and if the US says "don't do this" then they don't, just like the employer-employee analogy.

Originally Posted by 2strokebloke

Making demands based on gifts, is abusive.

So buying a gift card for someone is abusive? You are "demanding" they go to whatever store you bought the gift card for.

[thrasher]

Originally Posted by cody_e

You realize if I wrote a check for Hurricane Katrina relief to the Red Cross they can only spend it on Hurricane Katrina and not Hurricane Rita? Like mentioned before it's the US's money and if the US says "don't do this" then they don't, just like the employer-employee analogy.

I really don't see how an employer paying you to perform a service for them is analogous to our government providing aid to other countries so that people can feed themselves, get health care, etc...As far as I'm concerned, coupling abortion restrictions with aid is just another way for our sleazy politicians to force their religious ideology upon others. In fact, there's not much you can say to the contrary, because that is simply what's happening in this case.

[03cavPA]

Originally Posted by thrasher

As far as I'm concerned, coupling abortion restrictions with aid is just another way for our sleazy politicians to force their religious ideology upon others. In fact, there's not much you can say to the contrary, because that is simply what's happening in this case.

There are a lot of world wide charities that will provide aid to countries without attaching strings. Your convictions should lead you to support them.

ALL money has some strings attached to it. If one doesn't like the strings, don't take the money. Sleazy or not, they can take the money, or not. The US gov't. isn't a charity organization; it uses money to manipulate and control. Both here and abroad. I think it would be quite naive to suggest no one else in the world does this as well. And the US gov't. has no monopoly on sleaziness in its politicians.

If you want to take issue with reproductive policies, go take a look at China's policies. Of course, they don't attach any strings to the foreign aid they hand out, either. ;-)

Yep, sucks big time, I agree.

[thrasher]

Originally Posted by 03cavPA

There are a lot of world wide charities that will provide aid to countries without attaching strings. Your convictions should lead you to support them.

ALL money has some strings attached to it. If one doesn't like the strings, don't take the money. Sleazy or not, they can take the money, or not. The US gov't. isn't a charity organization; it uses money to manipulate and control. Both here and abroad. I think it would be quite naive to suggest no one else in the world does this as well. And the US gov't. has no monopoly on sleaziness in its politicians.

The problem is, it's not an option for these countries not to take the money...there are so many people dying of starvation and basic medical care, things that we don't think about in this country. I'm not suggesting that nobody else in the world does it. What I am suggesting is that it's not right...it takes all of the "good" out of the goodwill.

[jpolicke]

What's being overlooked is that women in these poor countries are a lot less empowered then here. If a woman holds up a condom over there and tells her man 'no rubber no nooky' first he'll probably smack her in the mouth, then he'll do her without the condom. And she'll complain to...who?
I hate to say it, but a lot of health and social issues concerning women can be traced back to the bad behavior of the men in their lives. You're dealing with cultures where women have no rights at all - starting with the right to say 'no' to their significant men, whether it's the marriage to a stranger arranged by their fathers, or the use of birth control by their husbands, or the extramarital lives of same. The man goes out and shags who knows what, and gets himself AIDS. He doesn't care about keeping his wife from getting it. Nor does he care about how many kids he leaves her with. He didn't support #1 and won't do any more for #9.
Now we step up like Great White Father and try to dictate our morality (which we ourselves are far from consensus about) to these people in exchange for our aid. Look, if you don't want to give them money, just say so. That's a defensible policy position. But don't ask people to jump through your hoops and act like good little (conservative Christian) Americans. That's just hypocritical.

[Oz]

If these "health centres in the third world" had any brains at all, they would have their US santioned and funded "health care" in 4 rooms out of a 5 room building, leaving that fifth room for abortion education etc run by a "totally unaffiliated" organisation.

Personally, I find it outrageous that the US imposes it's flavour of moral justice on ANY country, even it's own citizens. Who the fuck are some self-important politicians to say what I can and can't do with my body? Or what my partner can or can't do with her body?


Morals are a highly individual choice, and morals aren't changed by force - no matter how much money is wasted, or how many wars are started.....