Lingenfelter Corvette vs. Hennessey Viper

[ChibiSF]

SVS Stryker Twin Turbo. This isn't a comparo between an SVS Stryker Twin Turbo and a Lingenfelter. It's a comparo between a Lingenfelter and a Hennessey Viper. Anyways...

I stand corrected. The engine in the Lingenfelter is a special 7.0l GM Performance Parts LS1-style engine. However, the cars are still the same price, so there's really no excuse. Plus LPE cars have been known to be more reliable than their Hennessey counterparts.

[Viper 10]

Originally posted by FYRHWK1


the corvette is already faster, it ran a 9.24 @ 150 in an MT test, while it was on slicks, i don't believe the 800TTs 60's and 1/8 were THAT terrible. more then a set of slicks would be able to help. the corvettes also handle better stock to stock, better braking and faster turn in, if only slightly. also with hennessey's reputation, i'm starting to believe more and more his dyno charts are doctored, but i've no proof so it's just hearsay.

FYR:

Your handling stats are incorrect. The Corvette Z06 pulls .98 G's and the Viper pulls 1.03 G's. Handling spec's are TOTALLY irrelevant in ANY of your debates here, because neither Lingenfelter nor Hennessey do any significant chassis mods. At these HP levels, the engines far exceed the chassis's and suspensions on BOTH cars. These cars are built for one thing, and that is straight line drag racing.

1/4 mile times are irrelevant because there is a good chance that Lingenfelter is running some stupid gears like 4.04 against the Vipers 3.07's. You can make ANY car do quick 1/4 miles...

Both of these engines will never last longer than 10,000 miles before they implode. Hennessey is also stupid for putting twin turbos on a car with cast pistons. It is an accident waiting to happen. The pistons will collapse with any decent level of boost.

On the other hand Lingenfelter is using a GM racing block that is used by the Le Mans class C-5R's. Those engines are designed and built to be refreshed after every single race. If you know anything about boring and stroking, you'll know that 350 engines naturally get bored and stroked to 383. Going out to what I think equates out to 427 cubes is another accident waiting to happen. The block- piston walls are basically paper thin.

I also agree with comments made about Hennessey's business practices. He is a crook, and you would be stupid to loan this guy milk money. His D&B is a mile long with dozens of customers and supplier that are suing him. SVSi hasn't sold more than a couple of the Stryker TT Vipers, and they have had at least one catch fire and burn to the ground. Does that sound like a car that you would want?

Another note, Lingenfelter will NOT build one of his cars for California use. He cannot meet his HP & torque numbers using CA gas. I know this for a fact because I talked to him personally about doing work on my Viper (and to sub-contract with for a possible tuner business that I am trying start).

Both of these cars are fun to dream about, but are as impractical as cars get. Most of them are garage and dyno queens. Wouldn't you guys like to spend your $200k+ on a car that you can at least drive?

JMO.

Brad

[Pennzoil GT-R]

actually cornering G does not necessarily make for good handling or cornering. but anyway, as you said, neither of these cars were built to go round corners quickly.

[|Banchi1O5|]

Originally posted by Pennzoil GT-R
actually cornering G does not necessarily make for good handling or cornering. but anyway, as you said, neither of these cars were built to go round corners quickly.

not doubting what you said
but ive never heard this
please elaborate

[FYRHWK1]

Originally posted by Viper 10


FYR:

Your handling stats are incorrect. The Corvette Z06 pulls .98 G's and the Viper pulls 1.03 G's. Handling spec's are TOTALLY irrelevant in ANY of your debates here, because neither Lingenfelter nor Hennessey do any significant chassis mods. At these HP levels, the engines far exceed the chassis's and suspensions on BOTH cars. These cars are built for one thing, and that is straight line drag racing.

1/4 mile times are irrelevant because there is a good chance that Lingenfelter is running some stupid gears like 4.04 against the Vipers 3.07's. You can make ANY car do quick 1/4 miles...

Both of these engines will never last longer than 10,000 miles before they implode. Hennessey is also stupid for putting twin turbos on a car with cast pistons. It is an accident waiting to happen. The pistons will collapse with any decent level of boost.

On the other hand Lingenfelter is using a GM racing block that is used by the Le Mans class C-5R's. Those engines are designed and built to be refreshed after every single race. If you know anything about boring and stroking, you'll know that 350 engines naturally get bored and stroked to 383. Going out to what I think equates out to 427 cubes is another accident waiting to happen. The block- piston walls are basically paper thin.

I also agree with comments made about Hennessey's business practices. He is a crook, and you would be stupid to loan this guy milk money. His D&B is a mile long with dozens of customers and supplier that are suing him. SVSi hasn't sold more than a couple of the Stryker TT Vipers, and they have had at least one catch fire and burn to the ground. Does that sound like a car that you would want?

Another note, Lingenfelter will NOT build one of his cars for California use. He cannot meet his HP & torque numbers using CA gas. I know this for a fact because I talked to him personally about doing work on my Viper (and to sub-contract with for a possible tuner business that I am trying start).

Both of these cars are fun to dream about, but are as impractical as cars get. Most of them are garage and dyno queens. Wouldn't you guys like to spend your $200k+ on a car that you can at least drive?

JMO.

Brad

well, you're right and wrong, the corvette C5 doesnt handle as well, the Z06 is the corvette that will run with a viper, and it has a 1.01 G skidpad. but skidpad G's mean little when comparing a cars handling, but we arent arguing that here.

the bore X stroke of the C5-r 427 is 4.155 X 3.94, and your comparison with a 350 going to a 383 and this is completely off. the LS1 is a new engine bearing no similarities to an old style SBC, even the firing order has changed as well as having a 3.90 X 3.62 bore X stroke, the 383 you speak of is a gen 1 or 2 SBC with a 4.00 X 3.48 bore X stroke, the motors are completely different. the 383 uses a 4.030 bore and 3.74 stroke, most commonly they use a 400 ci motor crank, but with less bore, 4.030 vs 4.125, the typical 350 block cant be bored mroe then .060 over without getting unstable. the C5-R aluminum block supports a 4.155 bore safely, which is what the lingenfelter car uses, several people have used this with fine results. and if the cylinder wall thickness is so thin, why dont you get us some numbers? i'm going to agree witht he tuners over you, bub.

i've never seen any proof that it runs a different rear differential its possible it uses a manual 3.42 diff, which is a direct boltin replacement, but thats hardly a "4.04" like you claim.

[|Banchi1O5|]

the vette is in a issue of motor trend a couple issues back
and it ran to about 240 i believe

so i guess thats a nice ratio at the back
by the way its making over 850hp and 850lb/ft

[ChibiSF]

hmm...Here are the states for the Lingenfelter Corvette as published by Motortrend Magazine, June 2002 Vol. 54, No. 6:

Powertrain/Chassis
Drivetrain: Front engine, RWD
Engine type: 90 degree V-8, alum block/LS6 heads, Garret twin-turbo chargers
Valve gear: OHV, 2 valves/cyl
Bore/stroke, in/mm: 4.125x4.00/104.7x101.6
Displacement: 427.6 cu in (7.0L)
Compression ratio: 9.2:1
Horsepower @ rpm: 802 @ 4600
Torque @ rpm: 866 @ 3600
Redline, rpm: 6500
Transmission: Rossler 4L60-E auto
Axle ratio: 3.42:1
Final-drive ratio: 2.39:1
Suspension, f/r: Alum upper & lower control arms, transver composite leaf springs, anti roll bars
Brakes, f/r: Brembo four-piston calipers, 14-in rotors
Wheels, f/r: LPE/HRE 18x10/19x12
Tires: 265/40ZR18/345/30ZR19 Michelin Pilot Sport

Dimensions
Wheelbase, in: 107.5
Track, f/r, in: 57.4/60.0
Length: 176.8
Width, in: 70.1
Height, in: 54.0
Curb weight, lb: 3340
Seating capacity: 2
Cargo capacity: Two golf bags
Fuel capacity, gal: 16.6

Test Data
Accelaration, sec:
0 - 30 mph: 0.83
0 - 40 mph: 1.20
0 - 50 mph: 1.59
0 - 60 mph: 1.97
0 - 70 mph: 2.44
0 - 80 mph: 3.06
0 - 90 mph: 3.67
0 - 100 mph: 4.33
0 - 150 mph: 9.21
Quarter mile, sec/mph: 9.24/150.27
0-100-0 mph, sec: 8.75
Braking, 60-0 mph, ft: 108
Skidpad, g: 1.01
Top speed 240 mph (est)

Consumer info
On sale in U.S.: Currently
Base Price: $46,400
Price as tested: $165,000 (est)
Airbags: Dual front
Basic Warranty: 3 yrs/36,000 miles
Powertrain warranty: 2 yrs/24,000 miles
EPA mpg, city/hwy: 15/24
Range, miles, city, hwy: 249/398
Recommended fuel: Unleaded premium

I would post the same for Viper, but I don't have that issue. I'll guess I'll ask my friend for it.

[Pennzoil GT-R]

Originally posted by |Banchi1O5|




not doubting what you said
but ive never heard this
please elaborate

you may have seen or heard about the Jaguar XJR-15??? if u have i wouldnt need to say anymore. but in case you havent, ill explain myself in a bit more detail. The Jag was a race car, a fast (VERY fast) one at that, and due to all its aerodynamic aids it probably pulled a high amount of lateral G while cornering. But, everyone who ever drove it described it as the worst handling car of all time, the engine was mounted too high, and the 6.0 litre block was connected to a 7.0 litre head. Because of the chassis imbalance holding it on the limit was a nightmare, it had no poise and had a very quick breakaway at the limit. Yet if you were good enough/lucky enough to get it to go round the corner it would have massive amounts of grip. Cars that have good poise and good feedback as to what the car is doing can be better handling thatn something like the aforementioned Jag

[Pennzoil GT-R]

Originally posted by |Banchi1O5|




not doubting what you said
but ive never heard this
please elaborate

you may have seen or heard about the Jaguar XJR-15??? if u have i wouldnt need to say anymore. but in case you havent, ill explain myself in a bit more detail. The Jag was a race car, a fast (VERY fast) one at that, and due to all its aerodynamic aids it probably pulled a high amount of lateral G while cornering. But, everyone who ever drove it described it as the worst handling car of all time, the engine was mounted too high, and the 6.0 litre block was connected to a 7.0 litre head. Because of the chassis imbalance holding it on the limit was a nightmare, it had no poise and had a very quick breakaway at the limit. Yet if you were good enough/lucky enough to get it to go round the corner it would have massive amounts of grip. Cars that have good poise and good feedback as to what the car is doing can be better handling thatn something like the aforementioned Jag with its huge amounts of grip

[Viper 10]

Chibi:

Don't get too enthralled with stats and spec's. You should know darn well that the automakers and tuners are in deep in bed with the car magazines.

Here's and example Are Car Magazines Too Close?

Pennzoil:

If G's aren't a measure of a cars handling, what is? If a car can hold superior G forces over another, it WILL handle better PERIOD. Now if you want to debate things like trail braking, threshold braking, understeer and oversteer tendencies then that is a different story that comes down to personal preferences.

FYR:

You can agree with the tuners all you want. But you are EXACTLY the kind of idiot that hands money to crooks like Hennessey, BUB. You have no idea what you are talking about with tuners and the tricks that they play. I have looked first hand at the work that the tuner gods like TNT and Hennessy have done. It is embarrassing how they rip people off.

You also don't hear things about how crappy a car like Venom 800 TT handle just going straight. I have fellow Viper owner friends who have seen these things first hand with Hennessey cars. I have seen and driven the King Snake car and can attest to the the crappy handling. Can you say the same dickhead?`

Tell me why the exact engine block that Lingenfelter uses (which is the C5R motor, needs to be refreshed after every single race? Tell me why the Viper race engines would go for 4 or 5 races between rebuilds? Screw your little specs, that's reality.

I come to this forum to shed some real life Viper ownership and track experience with you, and all you do is sit on the toilet reading your stupid magazines and take stupid pot shots .

Next time, don't get personal when debating something as stupid as this. Loosen your sphincter up a little...

I'm done with you and this thread... bub

[Pennzoil GT-R]

Originally posted by Viper 10
Pennzoil:

If G's aren't a measure of a cars handling, what is? If a car can hold superior G forces over another, it WILL handle better PERIOD. Now if you want to debate things like trail braking, threshold braking, understeer and oversteer tendencies then that is a different story that comes down to personal preferences.

Lateral G is a measure of just that---Lateral G. Getting it to corner at that limit is a different matter. Handling ability cant be measured because... you are right, it is personal preference to a point, but would you call a car a good handling car that pulled 2G, yet if you so much as farted the back end would overtake the front? Let off the throttle, it will spin, accelerate mid corner, it will spin. do anything, it will spin. that is what i mean when i say G's arent a measure of a cars handling

[papanature]

I like the Lingenfelter Corvette. Just a personal preference.

[|Banchi1O5|]

ok i see what you are saying
but usually arent the breakaway limits introduced by the types of tires

40 years ago all tires were hard and you had no warning of breakaway

today most tires are soft and you can tell by the whine of their screaching that they are about to completely lose traction?

[Pennzoil GT-R]

ok i see what you are saying
but usually arent the breakaway limits introduced by the types of tires

40 years ago all tires were hard and you had no warning of breakaway

today most tires are soft and you can tell by the whine of their screaching that they are about to completely lose traction?

To a point, but mainly its to do with the way the car is setup and the fundamental design of the car that will determine its breakaway, and more so the feedback and the poise mid corner. Tyres give grip, suspension and chassis determine handling.

The GT40 is a great handling car, and that is 40+ years old, makes alot of the modern cars look stupid, as do the old Ferrari's (GTO's etc.).

[Pennzoil GT-R]

ok i see what you are saying
but usually arent the breakaway limits introduced by the types of tires

40 years ago all tires were hard and you had no warning of breakaway

today most tires are soft and you can tell by the whine of their screaching that they are about to completely lose traction?

To a point, but mainly its to do with the way the car is setup and the fundamental design of the car that will determine its breakaway, and more so the feedback and the poise mid corner. Tyres give grip, suspension and chassis determine handling.

The GT40 is a great handling car, and that is 40+ years old, makes alot of the modern cars look stupid, as do the old Ferrari's (GTO's etc.).