Video of the raid

[CBFryman]

haha, California knows nothing about bad education... 70% of sophomores at my school failed the FCAT which is a standardised test on MAYBE an 8th grade level...

5 Million is a HUGE chunk of change to be used specifically to take down street races in a particular area...
i mean how hard is it? they are droping like fly's in florida and all they are doing is paying undercover cops to try and get people to street race and having a badged cop hiding somewhere... rev, bam, cuff, arested...
they dont need Choppers with infrared camera's to see where the street racing hang out spots are.

[GForce957]

This is where Spilner would be perfect!

[street_racer_00]

Originally Posted by GForce957

This is where Spilner would be perfect!

Sounds like a job for meeeeee...I am Paul Walker's little brother

[JekylandHyde]

Originally Posted by street_racer_00

you live in middle-america BFE...period.

Is your geography that bad? I live 45 minutes from Philadelphia, PA; 2 hours from New York City, NY; Atlantic City, NJ; Baltimore, MD; Washington, DC ... I am very east coast and have lived inner city most of my life. I've never been anywhere near the middle of America.

Originally Posted by street_racer_00

I DO have a problem with a big chunk of change being spent on something that isn't really a good problem.

People dying isn't a good problem?

Originally Posted by street_racer_00

P.S. My sister is a public high school english teacher...you wanna try telling her that $5 mil isn't going to make a difference?

There are over 6 million students in California schools, that is less than $1 per student. You really think $5M is going to cut class sizes by 5?
With over 300,000 teachers that comes down to $16 for each teacher.

Again, $5M is not a lot of money in reference to an entire states budget.

Originally Posted by street_racer_00

I pity inner-city kids in the public school system in California, because they are getting a poorer education than ANYWHERE ELSE in the united states.

Got a statistic or reference to back that up?

Originally Posted by street_racer_00

Back on topic...it's overkill spending that much money to bust street racing rings.

Again, that is not a lot of money.
California's 2005 budget was $105,400,000,000.00 ($105 billion)
You are talking about a mere 5,000,000 of that.
That's not even 5 thousandths of one percent of the budget!

Tell you what, I will call your sister and explain that $5M is not going to help her class if you call Marisol Torres' family (they live in Sacremento as well) and tell them that street racing is no big deal and we shouldn't waste time & money on enforcing it.

More reading here:
http://www.jekylhyderacing.com/streetrace.htm

Tell you what, I have an easy solution for the $5M that you are so worried about ... if the police would confiscate the cars they bust and sell them for $5,000 each, they would only need to grab 1,000 cars to recoup the $5M and they can give that to your sister's class. How's that work for you?

I DO think it is pitiful that they only got 2 people for street racing.

[street_racer_00]

You're still not going to change my mind on the basis of one freak accident when there are millions of children getting gipped for an education...plus it is unlikely that that 5 million dollars would be distributed all over california, probably just Sacramento county, in which your less-than-$1-per-student statistic becomes completely USELESS.
I just realized I typeo'd meaning to say "big problem", not "good problem", so let me be more specific for you:
street racing=small problem
education funding=big problem
If you still don't think education is a big problem in California, why did california high school students rank 49th out of 50 states in nationally-based standarized testing?
I'll be willing to wager that more people die from falling down their stairs accidentally each year than from street racing...how come we aren't spending 5 million dollars suing the pants off contractors that build houses with dangerous staircases? BECAUSE IT'S NOT THAT BIG OF A PROBLEM!
I take full responsibility for misconstruing your city of origin, for some reason I thought you were from Ohio.

[street_racer_00]

Originally Posted by JekylandHyde

Tell you what, I have an easy solution for the $5M that you are so worried about ... if the police would confiscate the cars they bust and sell them for $5,000 each, they would only need to grab 1,000 cars to recoup the $5M and they can give that to your sister's class. How's that work for you?

One thousand is a lot of cars to catch street racing, that would take awhile...but it isn't a bad idea...you could get some pretty cheap fast cars from govt. auction

[JekylandHyde]

street_racer_00, I realize I am most likely not going to change your mind and there is nothing wrong with debating/discussing the issue here. Let's not make this personal. You and I have always been cool ... why screw that up over one difference of opinion?

So, can we still debate without making it personal again?

If so, my reply:
That accident was not a "freak." If they were not racing, that girl would still be alive. A freak accident is a tree falling over and taking you out in your car.

You are correct that the $5M was just for Sacremento, but it was also Federal money, not state money ... want to know how much $5M is out of the entire Fed budget that goes into the trillions?

I 100% agree that education is more important than street racing. If there was better education there might be less street racers

Your people falling down stairs argument:
1. That's not illegal
2. How often is the person killed an innocent by-stander?
3. How often are hundreds of people involved in the person falling down the stairs?

As for messing up my city of orgin, that's fine ... it shouldn't have been in this discussion anyway. Like I said, let's not make this personal.

1000 cars is not a lot. In 2001 San Diego did a similar crack down and confiscated 50 cars in one week.

[JekylandHyde]

Falling Death versus Automobile
[i]yes, I realize this is all auto accidents, not just street racing and I realize this is all fallls, not just stairs.

Look at "accidental deaths:"
http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html

2002 stats:
43,354 (44.3%) - Automobile
13,322 (13.6%) - Falls

For people between the ages of 15-24:
10,560 (74.8%) - Automobile
237 (1.7%) - Falls

Wow ... and people wonder why car insurance is so high for teens.

[CBFryman]

Originally Posted by JekylandHyde

For people between the ages of 15-24:
10,560 (74.8%) - Automobile
237 (1.7%) - Falls

Wow ... and people wonder why car insurance is so high for teens.

Maybe they should start making it harder to obtain a drivers license? i jackedaround in drivers ed for a semester, got a pink pice of paper, too it down to the DMV 1 year after i got my learners... and i have a license in my hand.
and there are plenty of other students that do the same thing, some of which i was scared to be in the back seat with when we went out into traffic. most of the ones that DIDNT pass drivers ed where the ones that either 1: put us in a ditch or 2: didnt get the required number of hours on the road due to tardyness.
i remember i was in the back seat and the instructor had to explain how to get the thing into gear...and he got his learners how?
drivers ed is now more about book work with traffic laws than learning to controll a vehicle. if they would even teach how to controll a skid a lot of one car accidents (especially winter and rain accidents) would no longer be a part of the statistic and some 2 car accidents wouldnt be either.
I will tell you this, and it is no lie, the drivers ed book we used said that in the event of a 4 wheel skid in a vehicle with abs is to hold the wheel steady, apply the brakes, and go along for the ride... now tell me, is that even near what you should do? NO!
Teens will be teens and boys will be boys, if places to race legaly and safely where more readily avalable i am 100% postive street racing would drop dramatically. but then the owner of the tracks is held liable for anything that happens...which is today's political BS. release forms and all this other crap has to be signed and the place has to be insured excetera excetera.

this is just my opinion here but:
maybe the sacramento police should have taken that 5mil, got some land jsut outside the city, and built a 1/4 mile track and AutoX course... because they obvously arent doing much by grabbing up 2 people and issueing fix it tickets to 26 people.
i mean that's how they stop skaters from skating in places they shoudlnt be, open up a skate park.

[GForce957]

[street_racer_00]

Originally Posted by JekylandHyde

street_racer_00, I realize I am most likely not going to change your mind and there is nothing wrong with debating/discussing the issue here. Let's not make this personal. You and I have always been cool ... why screw that up over one difference of opinion?

So, can we still debate without making it personal again?

If so, my reply:
That accident was not a "freak." If they were not racing, that girl would still be alive. A freak accident is a tree falling over and taking you out in your car.

You are correct that the $5M was just for Sacremento, but it was also Federal money, not state money ... want to know how much $5M is out of the entire Fed budget that goes into the trillions?

I 100% agree that education is more important than street racing. If there was better education there might be less street racers

Your people falling down stairs argument:
1. That's not illegal
2. How often is the person killed an innocent by-stander?
3. How often are hundreds of people involved in the person falling down the stairs?

As for messing up my city of orgin, that's fine ... it shouldn't have been in this discussion anyway. Like I said, let's not make this personal.

1000 cars is not a lot. In 2001 San Diego did a similar crack down and confiscated 50 cars in one week.

When I said freak accident, I was referring to the odds in which something like that would happen, not the method in which something would happen...if we use "freak accident" in that way, then I believe my argument still has some validity...you are right though, innocent people do not get hurt from falling down the stairs...but lets take a look at closed-course racing...I can't even count the number of times I've seen videos on the 'net of a rally car sliding out of control into a bunch of people, no doubt killing and/or seriously injuring a number of spectators; undoubtedly, the people were there under their own volition and knowledge of the consequences; how is this different from a bunch of people gathering on an empty street to watch some street races?

I believe that people who race on the highway in the vicinity of normal traffic should be dealt with swiftly and harshly, no doubt about that, and for the most part, they do...the thing is, that's not where the 5 million dollar effort is going; it's being spent on the groups of cars out on some abandoned street at 2 am doing no harm to anyone...all they have to do is send one cop car over there, and everyone gets the picture, climbs into their cars, and heads home, or at least that's what happened in the street racing scene where I came from.

As for the driver's license thing, they are already passing laws which makes it harded to obtain a driver's license...good move. I know when I was 16, I wasn't a very cautious and courteous driver, and I was lucky to get away from my first two years of driving without a ticket or an accident...the same can't be said for everyone though.

[CBFryman]

in FL they arent trying to make it harder, they are trying to make the age higher...which is assanine because at 18 you are no more skilled than 16 and not a whole lot more mature. and this doesnt just apply to young folk, my mom cant back a vehicle up for fermented beans or handle a vehicle on an expressway for shit... hesitates way too much and wont pull into traffic unless the closest car comming is 250yds down the road in all lanes. she cant brake for shit (is constantly varying pressure so stopping is jerky and inaccurate) and her vision keeps her from driving well at night...yet she has no restriction on her license to even have glasses while night driving.
they are constantly preeching driving is a privilage not a right yet this seems to only apply to younger drivers, truely reckless drivers, and DUI offenders.

[drdisque]

Also, falling down the stairs intentionally in a public place is illegal, its considered reckless behavior.