305 vs. 350

[400wagon]

Originally Posted by HLandin

Just curious, why do you want small primary tubes?

small primary tubes keep the power in the lower rpms, where a caprice's engine would spend the most time. You want small primary tubes, and you want them to be long. The length of the primaries before the collector shifts the torque peak up and down the rpm range. Longer= lower, shorter= higher.

I would agree though, it would be easier just to upgrade to a 350. You can find a running 350 starting around $100 if you look hard enough. The money you spend on it will go a lot further to making more power.
To build low end power, you can take a 350 and put your 305 heads on it. It gives you a higher compression ratio and the small valves make the air/fuel move faster (air enters at a faster speed becasue it can't move in at large quantities, but your high end will suffer- not much of an issue for a caprice) which gives you more low end torque.

I'l give you an example of how your money can be spent better on a bigger engine. I used to drive a 79 malibu. It had a 267ci v-8, that ran good and got decent milage. I swapped the 2bbl for a 4bbl, put on headers and dual exhaust, and saw not much of a difference at all. I think the main difference is sound. It was pretty slow, but still got 20 mpg on the highway.

Now I have an 85 caprice wagon. The 305 was swapped for a stock 400 small block with a 2bbl. As it was with the 400, it was getting 20mpg on the highway, and would smoke my old malibu, even though it wasn't even running that great. I made some changes to the exhaust (cat delete, one 2 1/2" pipe with a big, high flow turbo muffler, stock manifolds) swapped a 4bbl carb on it, and recurved the ignition, and now it runs awesome. Its fast, tire burning machine, and it was easier to get more power out of it with very little effort. I haven't done much driving since the changes, but I would think I am getting the same, if not better than 20mpg now ( if I can keep my foot out of it.)

I think your money is better spent on a bigger engine. Otherwise you are throwing more money to see very little change. It is possible to get a lot of power out of a 305, but it will take more effort and money. Our big cars need more cubic inches to get them moving.

[HLandin]

While I disagree with saying that a 305 isn't worth anything, I would have to agree with 400wagon. The expression "there is no replacement for displacement" does have its merits, especially with big cars like B-bodies. Like I said earlier, it all depends on your personal preferences. Personally, I like 350's and don't mind the reduced fuel economy compared to the 305.

[CaPrIcEkInG]

Originally Posted by bob 000 marley

i just beat my friends dads 350 4 bolt main in a race with my 91 305 i thought for sure he was going to take me but i guess i was wrong

What was the reason for chevy to stop making caprices??

[HLandin]

It was several reasons:

Probably, the market changed. Chevrolet was making less and less of a profit on the Caprice sold to law enforcement. While the number features on the standard police cars grew, the price did not. The fleet price of a 1990 Caprice 9c1 was between $12,000 and $14,000. The price was about the same for the 1996 9c1 ($14,000 to $15,000); however, the Caprice had become more expensive to manufacture each model year. Also, the retail market for full size cars had declined to be replaced by trucks, SUVs, and smaller, more fuel efficient cars (although, I'm sure the the full size trucks and SUVs only have slightly better MPG than the Caprice).

However, this change was not just confined to the Caprice or Chevrolet. GM killed the whole B-body line (Caprice, Impala/Impala SS, Buick Roadmaster, etc.) in the late '90s. It seemed to reflect a change in which vehicles GM though would sell (more trucks and SUVs, less full size cars, more FWD V-6 instead of RWD V-8). The only RWD car Chevrolet still makes is the Corvette (they even killed off the Camero except for police work).

Now, having said that, this is why I think it was stupid to kill the Caprice:

It won the Michigan State Police vehicle trials 10 years in a row (1987-1996) and was the only car to capture all six categories of the full size, large engine patrol cars (1990, 1991, and 1996).

The current Impala/Impala SS is no replacement for the Caprice 9c1 for police work. I would have put my 1990 9c1 against any new "Wimpala" SS. And although Chevrolet is "re-introducing" the small-block V-8 to 2006 Impala SS, it still is FWD.

Just as a side note, this is my view of the current grim situation:

Caprice 9c1 - no longer in production
Impala SS - discontinued in 1996 as a RWD V-8 5.7L; re-introducted in 2006 as FWD V-8 5.3L (what happened to legendary 5.7L 350-cid???)
Malibu - police car from 1979 to 1983 as RWD 350/305-cid; re-introduced as FWD V-6.

Heck, I even think the new Monte Carlos are FWD.

[vette_7t9]

FWD monte carlos indeed. took a look, and very disappointing. Why FWD anyways....when looking at dodge/chryslers success with full size RWD in the charger and 300C cars. I thnk dodge and chrysler have got things right. RWD is what people want, and what they will buy. If it was up to me to buy brand new full size, i would consider the charger/300 over any lame FWD offerings. Even consider a crown vic or mercury grand marquis!!!!

[brandtboster]

Originally Posted by HLandin

'91 Caprice should be a 4L60 transmission. The 4L60 was the successor to the 700R4 found in '90 version of 350-cid and 200R4 in 305-cid.

The '91 caprice has a 700R4 transmittion. Chevy didn't put 4L60E in caprices until 94.

[brandtboster]

Originally Posted by HLandin

'91 Caprice should be a 4L60 transmission. The 4L60 was the successor to the 700R4 found in '90 version of 350-cid and 200R4 in 305-cid.

The '91 caprice has a 700R4 transmittion. Chevy didn't put 4L60E in caprices until 94.

[HLandin]

You quoted my post without carefully reading it. While the 4L60E was not added to Caprice until 1994, the 4L60 was a transmission for the Caprice starting in 1990 (the 4L60 was just the re-naming of the 700R4 while the 4L60E was an electronically controlled 4L60, hense the "E").

[silicon212]

Technically, beginning with the 1987 model year, the following transmissions were redesignated:

TH350 - 3L60
TH400 - 3L80
TH700R4 - 4L60

so technically any 700R4 made beginning in the 1987 model year is a 4L60 officially.

[Nym]

Don't waste your time building up a 305. They're anemic and you won't see much bang for your buck. Upgrade to a 350 and retire your 305 to boat anchor duty.

Cheers

[Marsal420]

I am giong to get a caprice today and i was really thinking about just buying a crate engien from summit for about 2500 but i read what you peeps have said about the 305 and it's a mice engine yes but if you put the rigth work into it , it will do pretty much fine for power. I was goign to just run dual flow masters and get some decent to good headers . So im going to stick with the 305 and i mean why spend money for a new engine when your getting a car that runs, for FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the help

[vette_7t9]

hey if u haf a good running 305, and u just care for cruisin around with a nice V8 sound, by all means keep the thing.

[Marsal420]

We'll it got it and it's a 305 =) im both happy and sad happy cus it isn't some small V8 but also sad cus it has almost 180thousand miles on it but hey maybe it will run ok? Hopfully the body/frame are in also good condition but the paint seems alittle oxidized from sitting in one spot for about 3years , so maybe alittle TLC will make it look better? All i can do is hope and as soon as i can get it running i will put up a picture on here to show all you peeps what i have gotten myself into . I just need to figure out how to put pictures on it =(.

[GranniesCaprice]

When it comes to power, theres no replacement for displacement. If you're looking to make you car faster, find the nearest cherry picker and rip out that 305.

[ChevyGuy305]

I have a 91 Caprice Classic its a fule injected 305 im looking for some things to do i want to boost the horse power but in a none expensive way any comments from anyone would be helpful, thanks