For all the hippies

[T4 Primera]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

The compliance of the US in those crimes? Good grief.

I typed comlicity - not compliance.
Noun 1. complicity - guilt as an accomplice in a crime or offense

Anyone who is not willfully ignorant of the history between Hussein, Iraq, Iran and the US knows what I'm referring to.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article....rticle_id=5874

What's next on your list of tactics for deflecting attention away from the truth Yogs, calling me anti-american? or maybe anti-semetic?

[escort357]

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

whats wrong for them is wrong for us, and if we are incapable of living up toour own standards, its high time we stopped judging other countries.

america is not some infallible idiom of righteousness and global moral superiority. its time we stopped treating it like it is.

I agree.

They're terrorists. If we did the same thing, we'd be revolutionaries. Example- The British would have said that the Boston Tea Party was an act of terrorism. To us, it was a part of the American Revolution. WTF. We even called it a party. Now, if those terrorists succeed in regaining control of Iraq(seems unlikely), they'll call it the Iraqi Revolution.

[AlmostStock]

Originally Posted by gdalton

Oh yah, on the idea about making a count of all the inocent civilians we have killed during the war, maybe we should take a look back and find out how many inocent civilians Saddam killed on average per year then use that as a means of determining a ratio of the numbers of people killed by our forces as compared to the number of people that would have been killed by Saddam.

I love how Saddams atrocities were suddenly used as rationale for the illegal (by international law) invasion even though most of these atrocities were committed back when the US was supporting him in the 80"s. His wings were severely clipped after the first gulf war and he did little more than talk big after that. This combined with the fact that there was no proof of WMD or links to 9/11, is why the vast majority of the world (correctly) agreed that he was not a threat.

Welcome aboard escort357 and you are correct. Today we like to call them patriots but there was no USA for them to be patriotic to. They were traitors to the existing government which at that time was the British Crown. They also were condemned for practicing unconventional (for the time) warfare.

Lazysmuff you got my vote but you might want to change your name if you expect to get anymore!

[gdalton]

Ok I give up, you guys are right, Saddam was a saint and we should have a world wide holliday for all the terrorist, oops I mean freedom fighters, for their part in killing inoccent men women and children when ever they feel like we are evil. I'm sorry for trying to make people take a look at some of the facts that suround something as important as the fight for our way of life. My apologies and I only hope you can forgive my ignorance.

[AlmostStock]

Originally Posted by gdalton

Ok I give up

If you give up now the terrorists win.

[gdalton]

Unfortunatly sarcasm is hard to type out.

[T4 Primera]

Originally Posted by gdalton

...Saddam was a saint...

Sarcasm notwithstanding, nobody is saying that. What is being point out is that he was, in part, created by US foreign policy i.e. trained and supported by the CIA in his rise to power and subsequently supported by the US in the war with Iran.

What's more, he is only one of many that were supported this way. The US has to be careful what these criminals are charged with lest they implicate themselves as state sponsors of terrorism.

Example: Luis Posada - Click me!

Not everybody knows, nor cares to know about these sordid histories. They are consumed with making ends meet and going about their daily business. This stuff just doesn't register in their consciousness because it isn't affecting them directly in an immediate sense - their choice.

However, for many others around the world, every second of every day is affected by the consequences of these actions - and they will think and act as a result of what they percieve is happening.

[AlmostStock]

Originally Posted by gdalton

Unfortunatly sarcasm is hard to type out.

Actually you typed it out quite well. I don't think anyone really thought you were giving up. My previous comment was the first thing that entered my mind. It made me laugh, and well, I just couldn't resist!

I just noticed this recently and found it interesting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4743485.stm

It's this type of disregard for international law that helps to foster resentment of US policy, adding fuel to our enemies and alienating our allies.

[lazysmurff]

Originally Posted by gdalton

Saddam was a saint

noone said that. i personally think hes a bastard. but he's a western government created bastard. western governments who have commited the same atrocities that he is being penalized for.

Originally Posted by gdalton

and we should have a world wide holliday for all the terrorist, oops I mean freedom fighters, for their part in killing inoccent men women and children when ever they feel like we are evil.

ill quote my friend
"you know, ive noticed something about international politics. there is no such thing as a succesful terrorist in history, because once they become succesful, they become a founding father"

and ill remind you, we celebrate our armed forces, even though they kill innocent men women and children, so in a way, we're one step ahead of you.

Originally Posted by gdalton

I'm sorry for trying to make people take a look at some of the facts that suround something as important as the fight for our way of life.

saddam hussien wasnt threatening our way of life. fact: our way of life entails certain risks. risks such as the freedoms we are granted being abused to carry out violent acts against our own government. when the government, our own government, takes those freedoms away in the name of safety, they are infact changing our way of life more than any third world dictator ever could.

Originally Posted by gdalton

My apologies and I only hope you can forgive my ignorance.

i do not believe you are ignorant.

Originally Posted by gdalton

Ok I give up, you guys are right,

though i do believe this means i win!

i understand it was sarcasm, and as such you hoped it wouldnt be taken seriously, but your implications about the people who argue against the war were alarming, and had to be dealt with.

[gdalton]

This is going to be my last post on this, it seems we are just going around in circles. The original point for this thread was to show that sometimes people make the evidence they find fit their own ideas even when the evidence in question is to the contrary. I love my country and I love the people who fight for our freedom to argue about what our country is doing. I believe arguing for bothe sides is good, if we just let them do what they wanted and nobody said anything things would be much worse then they are. I don't believe in war but I know dismantling our military and sitting in a drum circle 24/7 would only bring more violence from others who only want power. America is not perfect but I think we have one of the best forms of government ever created and I would fight to keep it, inperfections and all.