What A Retard

[drewh4386]

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

Bombing Mecca would only piss of the entire Muslim world, rather than just the extremists that are fighting now.

Yep and my ship date might bump up a few month to a few weeks or even days if that happens.

[codycool]

Hmmmm. I wonder who blew up the buses in London, or who constantly blow up buses in Israel?

Please don't compare Waco as christians to muslims in beruit, world trade, 9-11, u.s.s cole, london, madrid! Psycho christians in Waco were not on a mission to destroy freedom. Islam is a violent religion, always has been and always will be.

[sivic02]

Originally Posted by codycool

Hmmmm. I wonder who blew up the buses in London, or who constantly blow up buses in Israel?

Please don't compare Waco as christians to muslims in beruit, world trade, 9-11, u.s.s cole, london, madrid! Psycho christians in Waco were not on a mission to destroy freedom. Islam is a violent religion, always has been and always will be.

First of all, there are different groups of individuals in religions. For example a catholics views on certian things might differ from a baptists. Just because some people who are muslim have done things wrong doesnt mean every muslim is wrong. Using your logic lets off all the christians too! There certianly are christian terrorists as well, they just arent portrayed in the media as such, one you might have heard of is Timothy McVeigh (sp?) Dont single out one group, lets kill everyone!!!

[tenguzero]

Originally Posted by codycool

Hmmmm. I wonder who blew up the buses in London, or who constantly blow up buses in Israel?

Please don't compare Waco as christians to muslims in beruit, world trade, 9-11, u.s.s cole, london, madrid! Psycho christians in Waco were not on a mission to destroy freedom. Islam is a violent religion, always has been and always will be.

You sound like Michael Savage

You need to understand something: just because a religion may possess aggressive characteristics (and Islam is only one of the many religions with such -- Christianity and Judaism aren't exactly sunshine and kittens either, as they have their own forms of persecution and reasons for aggression) doesn't mean the people will follow suit -- normal people do have moral codes, no matter their denomination. The Waco people weren't on a mission to "destroy freedom" but that doesn't mean they couldn't have easily taken to such a cause, they just went a different direction. 300 years ago Christians were putting "heretics" to the flames, and the church was trying like hell to scare people as far away from empirical science as possible. Even with all the brainwashing and intimidation going on, they were unable to succeed in the long term, as people just didn't buy into it wholesale.

My point is, Islam is the second largest religion in the world, making it pure ignorance to hold the whole institution to a certain classification simply because of the acts of a minute few. If the religion were as inherently, exceedingly violent as you say, then there would be a lot more shit blowing up, public transportation being hijacked and other such terrorist acts. Which sums it up: the people committing these crimes are NOT following religious doctrine -- they're following TERRORIST doctrine, and wrapping it up in the guise of religion.

[TheFordSupremacy]

It seems for once I agree with the suspected liberal bias in this forum, they are all semi-open minded and correct. Someone needs to provide opposition to the dumbass redneck or hardcore christian who advocates boming mecca. My father recently returned home from the conflict and I intend to serve. American soldiers taking part know that Muslims are not the problem, its the common criminal that is. Every society has criminals that become black sheep and ultimatly result in that society earing a stigma and various sterotypes . So some fucked up muslim or islamic radical kills innocent people, we should punish him, not his society. Thats like the son of a good family killing and the family getting killed in return. My view on it would be to end religious tensions be taking atheism as a common belief, the world would still have morals to live by and i figure it would cease religous tensions.

I know this may never happen but it seems fail proof if it were ever implemented.

[2strokebloke]

I don't know how one could suggest that Islam is somehow more violent than christianity - take a brief look at history... the crusades, manifest destiny, the witch hunts, perhaps more recently the Lord's Resistance Army, and Timothy McVeigh, all of the violence in Ireland, and tell me what makes Christains any less violent than the Islams who have been violent and "always will be."

[codycool]

I'm not saying the entire muslim world is plotting against western civilization. I'm claiming that we are fighting muslims who call a jihad against the U.S.

I've been to Iraq! Fought mostly syrians, egyptians, jordanians, Iranians and on occasion a few of Saddam's fedayeen*! Lets be honest folks, we're not fighting terrorist. We're fighting islamic extremist.

And once again im not defending christianity so timothy mcfayoadsuo** or who ever, has nothing to do with waco in which I was discussing.

[codycool]

Originally Posted by 2strokebloke

I don't know how one could suggest that Islam is somehow more violent than christianity - take a brief look at history... the crusades, manifest destiny, the witch hunts, perhaps more recently the Lord's Resistance Army, and Timothy McVeigh, all of the violence in Ireland, and tell me what makes Christains any less violent than the Islams who have been violent and "always will be."

2 stroke look back at my post...and read..comprehend..understand...I'm not defending christianinty!!!!

[Raz_Kaz]

Originally Posted by codycool

I'm not saying the entire muslim world is plotting against western civilization. I'm claiming that we are fighting muslims who call a jihad against the U.S.

I've been to Iraq! Fought mostly syrians, egyptians, jordanians, Iranians and on occasion a few of Saddam's fedayeen*! Lets be honest folks, we're not fighting terrorist. We're fighting islamic extremist.

And once again im not defending christianity so timothy mcfayoadsuo** or who ever, has nothing to do with waco in which I was discussing.

You have to realise that muslim extremists and regular muslims do not share the same faith. The estremists use the religion to justify their actions whereas us normal folks use that same religion to condemn it.
Going after the religion is like what most war lords do in these types of countries; you kill one of my villagers be prepared for all out war or give me some kind of ridiculous compensation.

[broddie50]

Lets look at the big picture for a moment. If a NUCLEAR terrorist attack is happened to be set of by muslim exxtremists, then not only mecca, but the whole world would be on the brink of nuclear destruction. Do you think said terrorists give a damn about good and decent people in the U.S. ? No. There is no such thing as a surgical nuclear weapon. Mecca would just be one of the many "holy" sites laid to ruin by a retailatory U.S. nuke attack. What that Congressman said was quite stupid. But if the event ever occured, then as Einstein said, WW4 will be fought with sticks...

[sivic02]

And how would the US attack an enemy that has no set boundaries? That makes almost as much sense as saying, Jim pissed me off so I will go beat up his entire family and maybe his neighbors too. Mecca would not be laid to ruin by a us nuke attack, we would not nuke some random people because of the actions of a few.

[YogsVR4]

In other words, just sit here and take it.



Terrorists aren't going to develop nuclear technology on their own. They have to get it from someone. If it was given to them willingly, that country should be turned into a parking lot.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by sivic02

Go talk to a Muslim, ask them what a jihad is, it has nothing to do with war. It is about a better way of life, it is more of the individual person than it is for the whole. During a time of war Islam prohibits violence that involves any women, children, old folks, religions figures, etc. Therefore even if a Muslim believes they are involved in a war, terrorist acts are still prohibited. Basically you dont screw with anyone who isnt screwing with you. Muslims are not terrorists, most have a decent understanding of what the religion is based around, and war, terror, etc is not what it is based around. The ones who take part in extreme acts such as bombings etc are uneducated blind followers of certian extreme groups (which sounds almost like what you seem to be).

Most of the research I have done in regards to jihad shows me that there is more than one form of jihad. You have violent and non violent jihad. So when you say jihad has nothing to do with war you have mis-spoken. Here is the version of jihad from Encarta which also shows a violent form of it.

Jihad, in Islam, the struggle to please God. Jihad is the duty of all mainstream Muslims, who belong to the branch known as Sunni Islam. There are four ways they may fulfill a jihad: by the heart, by the tongue, by the hand, and by the sword. The first refers to the inner, spiritual battle of the heart against vice, passion, and ignorance. The second way means speaking the truth and spreading the word of Islam with one's tongue. The third way involves choosing to do what is right and to combat injustice and what is wrong with action, or one's hand. The fourth way refers to defending Islam and waging war against its enemies with the sword.
Although jihad has come to be equated with “holy war” in the West, most Muslims would argue that military action is only a small part of jihad and that this form of jihad should be undertaken only in self-defense or against injustice. They see the internal struggle to attain self-mastery and lead a virtuous life as far more important. In some countries, however, Muslim activists would like to see Islamic governments installed, and for them jihad encompasses a more revolutionary goal of replacing their country’s political leadership. Still other Muslim militants extend the concept of jihad to acts of terrorism against Western countries whose influence they view as harmful to Islam.
Islamic legal scholars, during the early centuries of Islam, divided the world into dar al-Islam (abode of Islam) and dar al-harb (abode of war—that is, of non-Islamic rule). Islamic law further stated that it was the duty of dar al-Islam to strive to bring as much of dar al-harb as possible under its control, preferably by conversion but by force if necessary. The Qur'an (Koran), the sacred scripture of Islam, states that those who die in this type of jihad, while fighting for the faith, automatically become martyrs and are awarded a special place in heaven. Most modern branches of Islam, however, stress the inner, spiritual jihad.
In contrast to mainstream Sunni Muslims, Muslim groups such as the Imami and Bohora-Ismaili Shias are forbidden from participating in a hostile jihad. These sects believe the only person legitimately capable of conducting such a jihad is their imam, or spiritual leader.

[Flatrater]

I agree that what the congressman said wasn't the best thing for him to say. But I also believe in an eye for an eye.

Now what gets me is the amount of people jumping up and down complaining about what he said yet I don't see those same people jumping up and down when the terrorists kill, behead and bomb Americans or their own muslims. Face it some muslims cheer when an American gets killed yet they boo hoo when an American kills a muslim. Isn't it asking alot for the Americans not to shoot people who are shooting at them?

[sivic02]

Yogs I agree, if we know that a country gave the technology to terrorists we should mow it down and turn it into the worlds largest disney world. If something is stolen or aquired through other means though its easy to point fingers, blaming an entire country seems a little harsh.

The idea of destroying entire cities, targeting millions of innocent people because you feel threatened by certian religious groups sounds familiar.