Too popular?

[Muscletang]

Question, what's the name of your car Nicole?

[CamaroSSBoy346]

these idiots are buyings lambo's and 'rarri's, and I cant even afford a fucking 92 Lincoln, or PI HCI for my car.
Hey, this is stress release, right?

And yeah. I remember when I was a kid, I watched some movie with a Lambo in it. I thought it was the coolest car. Now, a Lambo isnt even in my top 10 fav car list... mtv "cribs" has polluted my mind.

[Nicole8188]

I don't have that kind of money. I drive an F-150. That's about as pimpin as I am right now.

But when I get older and have the money, I will definitely have a nice car. With one of those names. Why? Because it drives nicer, is more luxurious, and makes me feel better at the end of the day.

[-Josh-]

I could care less about why a car is being used. Why? Because at the end of the day...it's still just a car. A pile of sheetmetal and plastic pieces.

[ec437]

Originally Posted by Z28Josh

I could care less about why a car is being used. Why? Because at the end of the day...it's still just a car. A pile of sheetmetal and plastic pieces.

more importantly, a shiny pile of metal and plastic.

[Heep]

Bristol

What you've mentioned is precisely one of the reasons why I drive classics.

However, what you're talking about is also nothing new - look at John Lennon's Rolls-Royce, or Keith Moon hand painting his Bentley lilac and driving it into a duck pond. While the over-commercialization of "bling" and such, compounded with the public's worship of celebrity and lack of any notable originality certainly puts the issue to the forefront, it's not necessarily the cause.

Let me offer this conclusion - it's not a lack of care from the customers (be it rap stars or $9,995 Daewoo buyers), it's a lack of care from the manufacturers. Very few companies now produce a car because they want to, they produce a car to make money. Think the BMW boss cares if his personal ride is the "ultimate driving machine?" Doubt it. Just as long as it meets the image created by the marketing department and makes him money, he's happy. Even the boss of Porsche is probably only concerned with maintaining profit levels. Sure, the engineers and stylists and such may love their work, but ultimately they need to get paid. The automotive market is saturated, it's reached its maturity, and the car has become a commodity. The only way manufacturers can succeed is to: 1. Focus on a niche group (Bristol, Morgan, etc), 2. Be cost (not price) leaders (the Koreans, Chinese VWs, etc), or 3. Differentiate (BMW as "the ultimate driving machine", Hummer as a military wannabe, etc). Only a few can reach niche groups (as niche groups are limited) and only so many can compete on cost (as sweat-shops are utilized), so the rest must differentiate themselves (for example, the once-exclusive brands you've mentioned). It truly is "all about the benjamins" with 95% of all manufacturers.

As I mentioned, that's why I love classics. First, their numbers have dwindled over the years (and likely weren't as high to begin with), so exclusivity is virtually assured, second, most cars were built with passion back then - though technology has, overall, improved cars since, nowadays you just don't see cars this side of a Rolls-Royce with, for example, a real wood drinks tray and cabinet as seen in a simple old Rover. There are numerous other reasons, but I won't bore you with everything

Before I conclude, I must point out that there are always exceptions to the rule. For example, before retiring, Ferdinand Piëch wanted to make his ultimate car - a car he actually cared about (rather than one to make a profit) - and we ended up with the VW Phaeton. This is a car with an on-board dehumidifier so the windows never steam up, a car with an innovative engine which propels the machine to 200mph, a car that pushes boundaries in every direction it sees. The problem is, it doesn't, at all, fit with VW's image. It's a "people's car" for $100,000. When's the last time you saw one? How many rappers have one? It's a complete sales flop, and for that, it represents one of the few truly great modern cars.

[lazysmurff]

it sounds to me as though you are, porsche, pointing out the automotive equivelent of "selling out". something indie fans have to deal with on almost a day by day basis. let me see if i can be of service to help ease your mind.

people start up a business (or start a band) because they believe it is a way to make money doing something they love. every band wants to make enough to sleep under a roof and eat. every car manufacturer wants the same thing. eventually they are sucessfull enough to carve out a little niche for themselves amongst the rest of the trash, and they can become comfortable. ferrari, bentley, rolls, lamborgini all found a niche amongst the uber wealthy racer or enthusiast. and thus a feeling of exclusivity was born. just like you favorite indie band (modest mouse as an apt example) found a nice little niche amongst music lovers tired of the same shit that was pouring out of their stereo.

but those people who are always looking for exclusivity (and can afford it) are always looking for a way to set themselves apart. the extremely wealthy buy extremely exclusive cars in order to set themselves apart from the poor, record companies sign odd sounding bands in order to set themselves apart from the competition and capitalize.

but as more and more people seek exclusivity in these cars (or bands) the companies/bands realize that they can make alot more money by appealing to a wider base. modest mouse changed their sound dramatically, and "good news for people who like bad news" sold a shit load of copies and made them a household name. the car brands adopted mass production techniques and were able to sell to a wider range of people, and became not an exclusive car, but a status item.

however, there is hope. not every band truly ever sells out. the great ones never forget their roots. niether do great car companies. theres always a nod to their base. there are tracks on the new modest mouse album for those of out there who remember them when they couldnt get any gigs and so we drove 2 days to see them play live in their best friends back yard. and there are cars out there for for the true enthusiast, as a nod to the companies roots. let them mass produce their 1 or 2 flagship models...there will always be the true "car lovers" car being looked over by the rap artists and pro athletes in the back of the showroom.

[ThatRoundHeadedKid]

Originally Posted by Porsche

thrasher, it hurts to admit, but the Porsche Cayenne for a long time made me disgusted with Porsche. Sure it's been a financial saviour, but in terms of heritage and tradition, there is none. These days it's all about money, money, money. They were one of the last brands to put forth an SUV, they did a decent job, but it totally contradicts their past as an independant sports car maker.

On a similar note, Bentley announced that they're going to be introducing an SUV of their own, being claimed "the most expensive SUV ever" by Car and Driver.

Originally Posted by Nicole8188

Okay, I'm a car manufacturer and I'm making an awesomely exclusive car. Now, my car is great. Like, the greatest one out there. Ever. (Just trying to stress the awesomeness of my car)

If a lot of people were putting demands in for my car, I would definitely want to meet the demand. Because that means more profit for me. If a rapper felt like using my car in his video, wouldn't I be happy? Isn't that free advertising? Wouldn't that make other people want to buy my car?

It's the same with music and art. Don't you think underground artists like it when they get to be popular? And wouldn't Van Gogh have been a lot happier if he had sold more than 1 painting during his lifetime?

I just think that the car companies are probably happy that their vehicles are selling.

It does aggravate me that a lot of people don't appreciate their possessions, but I don't really want to whine about it, because chances are if I had a billion dollars, I'd be just as much of an asshole.

That's what's poisoning the minds of these auto makers, as Porsche is trying to point out and why the heritage is being lost.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by ra227

My fear is that you are expressing the feeling that these individuals- pro athletes and rappers- do not work hard for their money and likewise cannot truly appreciate the reason behind an exclusive brands heritage and true purpose.

They do work hard, but they also often have over-inflated salaries, which is another topic in itself. The millions, tens of in some cases can get to your head, these people can afford to throw money at whatever they want. I targeted this group ebcause of the influence they have. They make it seem like years of tradition and respect for these cars can be thrown out the window, and twist it into 'pop-culture'. It's not a trend, it's a travesty. Anybody is entitled to do what they want with their money, but when you start 'customizing' these cars in this manner, don't be surprised if it ticks off a few deep-rooted enthusiasts. As it was already mentioned, a good portion couldn't identify even the most basic qualities these cars are known for. If you buy a Rolls Royce, at least attempt to know what a Rolls Royce actually stands for.

Nicole, these companies don't need advertising, how often do you see primetime ads for Lamborghini? Billboards? Most of these companies have waiting lists stretching into years. I once remember reading that the Ferrari Testarossa was the world's most recognized automobile. Not to mention even my great-grandmother knows what a Ferrari is.

Heep, yes it's nothing new, but it's now accepted as mainstream. Nobody was running out back in the 60's and 70's putting mutli-coloured paints jobs on their RR's or Warholing their BMW's.

lazysmurff, it's not quite selling out. It's just selling, manufacturers have a tough time discriminating buyers, as far as I know only Ferrari's been able to pull it off in recent years, and was for one $650,000 model. They are merely growing, and growth is quite natural. The growth rate however, bothers me. Take Aston Martin, they produced 4917 cars from 1958-1973, that's roughly 300 cars per year, in mid 2004, they announced they have planned for 5000 cars per annum. There was consistent growth over the years leading to this, but post 2000, it went through the roof. It just seems that right now for these brands, the clientele is quite diverse, and those who butcher these cars get all the attention, it fools the public in believing that these cars should have these modifications because it's the thing to do.

It just feels like these brands are victims of pop culture, a status symbol saying that 'they've made it' and they want everyone to know. It's almost arrogant in a way, flaunting it in the manner they do.

I appreciate the modest mouse analogy though, it's happening to a lot of bands lately. Maybe it's all just the wheels of change, but somewhere along the line, I began to feel that people have lost thier sense of bewilderment around cars that still command it.

BTW, nice to see the effort people are putting into this thread.

edit: Bentley did produce an SUV back in the early 90's, the Bentley Java. Not likely you'll see one though, the only two they made are locked away in the Sultan of Brunei's warehouses. The news of a new one however, is underwhelming.

[ac427cpe]

"... too many self-indulgent wieners with TOO MUCH BLOODY MONEY!"


That about sums it up.

[ThatRoundHeadedKid]

Originally Posted by ac427cpe

"... too many self-indulgent wieners with TOO MUCH BLOODY MONEY!"

Nicholas Cage in Gone in 60 Seconds at the Ferrari dealer.

EDIT: I love that scene.

[ac427cpe]

Originally Posted by ThatRoundHeadedKid

Nicholas Cage in Gone in 60 Seconds at the Ferrari dealer.

but of course


and it's so true.