Warplane and Curious George

[grantrl78]

"My vote for best looking is the F-18. "

Yep it is pretty too! I like em in bright blue and yellow accents.
Mcdonald Douglas made most of the coolest and baddest
jets before they went under. Hard to believe that thing is over
25 years old
And to think desktop computers are
out of date in 3 years or less.

[knightvision]

[quote=ClearHooter]

Originally Posted by knightvision

No. The Europeans do.

I'd have to question that since ours is the only ones that have been successfully combat tested. "Successfully" is the operative word here. I'm not saying that "combat testing" is a good thing, just a fact. Also you have to figure in the men and women that fly and support them. I salute them proudly.

Yep...





Well seriously, you're right. We haven't tested ours in combat yet. We probably not have to test them in combat in the nearer future, because Mohammed only attacks the US and not the EU anyhow.

Your forces are in a war in at least every decade, so of course they are trained.

Nevertheless, our land and sea warfare equipment is in any case competitive to yours. I mean the tech, not the account of it, e.g. the Visby Corvette, Tiger Attack Helicopter, Leopard II, new generation German submarines...

Only the fighter plane sector is ways ahead to ours. This Eurofighter must be a joke.

And please don't get me wrong. I don't want to make a decleration of war with these words. It's just my own opinion, a bit patriotic maybe, which is still seen as a problem in Germany. But we're wellknown for our mechanical engineering and that somehow includes military hardware.
I also have a F-16 poster in my room...

[grantrl78]

Knightvision we like to smack really weak countries! Not sure how honest
a test the last couple of wars have been. I mean how effective is it to
launch a $1million cruise missile at a cave or camel using a strategic bomber
that cost a couple of billion? I think our fighting force does have
some problems. We are still set up to wage war against
a massive ww2 army like the old ussr. The main weakness of planes like the f-15 is that they are too easy of a target sitting
in their weak assed hangars and too expensive and to big of a pain
to service and need too large of a runway to function. A capable army that might use tactical nuclear weapons would wipe out our mighty f-15's
on the ground

[HighOctaneNOSUser]

I still say it's too close to tell between the SU-27 and the F-15. I mean, the SU is the most agile dogfighter, one of the most agile fighters of all time (Jets) And also has a fair array of weapons. But the Eagl has about .1 mach over it, and a few more guns...

And if someone argues the F-22 is still dominent I am, again, going to say 4 letters. SU-37. Thrust vectoring, improved eroganomics and weapons AND radar Plus thrust vecotring AND canards so the best just keeps getting better

[ClearHooter]

The reason the USA is in the sights of Islam is we seem to be one of the few countries that have the nads to support the right of Isreal to exist, after the UN gave it the right to do so. For some reason a large part of the Islamic world finds it hard to co-exist with anyone that isn't. This may be due to a bunch of clerics that feel the only way to stay in control is to use the name of their god to invoke hatred. Since politics and economy haven't, there has to be something to rally around. The problem I have with these people is... "IM NOT MOSLEM. AND AIN'T GOING TO BE!!!!! That makes me and all of those like me INFADELS. And what do they want to do to infadels? And that brings us to a non-negotiable point. By my religious teachings and Constitution, Man has a God given right of self determination. This means to believe in any religion ...or not. To be able to say what we want without fear of retaliation from clerics or government.....George. When we feel its threatened we do react. Hence the war casualties so flipantly shown in the previous reply. If our "allies" were just that they'd see some of their hardware in smoldering piles as well. Its a price we are willing to pay to keep their self-determination. Your welcome. As for being in a war every decade I can't argue that. But the preceeding can to some degree can be blamed as a cause for the tensions of most since WWII.

Tactical Nuclear Weapons??? Now there's a contradiction in terms. It reminds me of a cartoon I once saw called "O Kelly." It involved a dog and a boy master. One day the dog ( a smart one; at least for a dog) showed the boy an atomic fly-swatter he'd invented, saying there was only one problem with it.........."He couldn't find a handle long enough."

Personally if we could do the job with stand-off conventional weapons I'm all for it. But that's not going to happen. We do have to get our hands dirty. War is abhorrent. That's why it doesn't need to be drawn out. Once a course is determined politicians should stay the Hell out of it. We don't get into these things to make friends, that's obvious. If that were the case France would be our best buddy. We get into them to preserve our freedoms, our nation and way of life that most nations envy. If others benifit from the "fallout" fine.

Sorry this deginerated into pissing contest.

[grantrl78]

Clearhooter i don't feel we were theatened by iraq.
That is where we differ the most.
We were attacked by saudis on 911.
But we have no intention of invading them.
We ARE threathened by china and north korea. But somehow
the fact that north korea does have nukes doesn't bother our leaders.
That is a much bigger problem than iraq ever was.
I think we don't go after the north koreans or chinese because they are much stronger and they don't have oil.

Like you though, I have alot of respect for the guys who fight for us.
They are really good and brave. I just hate that they are used by corrupt
leaders.

[ClearHooter]

I don't disagree that Iraq was further down on the list than those you mention. But we are threatend by Islamic fundamentalist not only as a nation but world wide. I do think it was a mistake to remove Sadam when we did. But I also think if given time he would have been a threat once more. China and N. Korea are threats which is another reason I call the "Free Trade Agreements" treason.

[knightvision]

You Americans do a lot in the World. There may be different opinions whether you do the right or the wrong, but you act and react. I once watched "Blackhawk Down" which was very tragic.

As you invaded Iraq, nearly all my school mates went on a demonstration against Bush. But I then thought: Ok. they go in, some of them will die, they have the administrative problems and aftermath, George will become serious problems, but we in Germany and France do nothing at all, have one enemy bastard less and then maybe even get an order for some 1000 Mercedes abulances.

I did not go to any of these demos.

This has become a very political thread now. It's a bit off-topic, I think, but very interesting.

[stuffbyalex]

Looks great Grant. Nice caricature as well

Alex

[grantrl78]

Clearhooter I know you feel strongly. Thanks for not ripping on me about my politics.
I kind of dreaded reading your response. Because
I thought I would piss you off. And this should be about drawing!
I promise not to mix my war machines with my political drawings anymore

Knightvision it is really cool to hear first hand what was going
on in europe at that time. I saw it on the news I also saw
some pretty large demonstrations over here on the
news. I think that fact alone showed that this was
far from the clear cut action that happened in the first gulf war. And
I loved blackhawk down! It was a great view of how
complex and screwed up the reasons for war are. From what I have read .

And thanx alex! Man you always have cool stuff to say about my work.
I appreciate it!

[ClearHooter]

[quote=grantrl78]Clearhooter I know you feel strongly. Thanks for not ripping on me about my politics.

You can't do the artwork I've been involved with over the last 15 years and meet the people who've lived it and not become appreciative, biased and opinionated. Simply put, we're intitled to our own opinions and self determination. Intollerance is what is intollerable. If we could learn to agree to disagree we could stop wasting resources on destruction and put it towards the many problems we've created that threaten our extinction. I unfortunately don't see this happening, given the present course. Man's intellegence is only equaled by his gullability. What kind of god desires that we kill each other in his name? Thats not devine...Its evil! If we could stand off and look at that question it might take that factor out of the equation. Then we could turn our attention to the real villans; those that thurst for power at our expense. On that final note I once again apologize for my part in taking this thread off its intended course.

I appreciate your excellent artwork and now ask the questions I probably should have asked in the first place. Where did you pick up your PS technique? Is there a publication that might be available that you could suggest? One of my many problems trying to create anything on computer is drawing the initial line art. I've presently been drawing that by hand, scanning it then sending it to PS. What's the trick to being able to create a smooth, irregular, arc? Your work looks like its been masked then airbrushed. Is there something I'm missing in the tools that allows that?

Again...I appreciate everyone's opinions and tollerance.

[grantrl78]

Thanks Clearhooter ! Your work rocks! I wish I could do the stuff that you do with pencils.
I learned to paint in school. And never touched a brush for about 2 years then got a job coloring for a crappy comics company called chaos! I did 2 books before they went bankrupt! I know that it was my shitty colors that did it But I learned from a guy called Todd Boeker who colored alot of spawn books. The main thing he taught me is how to be neat and fast.
It really is the lowest form of art with the lowest pay known to man though
Since - I have been painting stuff for myself in my spare time.
It is mostly about using the lasso tool and flat colors to select parts of your canvas. Cool toots are all over the web

I sometimes draw with a pen and other times I use a raster program like photoshop or painter. It is just about learning a wacom instead of a
mouse And making fast marks. The only advantage to drawing into the computer is the undo function. There is really no secret tool for drawing.
Some use the vector tool in ps but it leaves me with a really boring line
that takes years to do. It is the one that looks like the pen .
It is a cool thought that some comic inkers are all
digital And they use a wacom , their hand and photoshop.

I hope to one day be good enough to paint stuff in my spare time to sell.
The lousy thing about digital art is that you aren't left with a finished canvas

Clearhooter, I would love to hear how you learned to paint and etch!

[ClearHooter]

OK you asked.....

My dad was a Marine during WWII. Afterwards he became a Methodist minister. I started drawing at the age of 4 while sitting on the front pew at church. A TV program when I was around 6 years old waaaay back in the mid '50's called "Learn to Draw" hosted by a guy named John NaGee was a huge influence. He was big on perspective and vanishing points. This influenced my style greatly. Like a lot of the younger artist here, I drew all during school. But my high school had no art program so I was pretty much on my own. There I mostly drew Ed Roth type cars; but I also picked up color pencil then. During high school I also played "blue eyed soul" music with a kickin' 9 piece band called "The Contenental Express." We drew our brass section off of the high school band. Our 3rd chairs were like most schools 1st. "The Express" had a song list of over 400 songs. I've played and written music ever since, that ranges from rock, jazz and country and sometimes a fusion of one or more of the these. My last band was named "Clear Hooter" which I found on a TR6 light switch. I worked on import cars at my own shop from 1973-1984. Stuff just got way to complicated by then and I went to work for the local Toyota dealership. I stayed there through 6 years and as at least as many owners. The next to last owners decided to use a hot air balloon as an advertising campaign. They knew I was nuts and that I raced an F Production MG. Plus they also knew I had no problem being a ham since I played rock 'n roll on stage. They called me in one day and told me they had bought "a big red balloon."

"What like you fly in?" "Can I have a ride?" was my response.

"No we need a pilot"

So they trained me. Until my dying day I swear they thought they were going to deliver parts in the damn thing. I was there when my instructor asked them what they were going to use as a chase vehicle? There reply was "A what?" They were informed that the thing usually only goes one way and the chase vehicle brings it back. They never had a clue about ballooning. They were always wanting me to "Go about 2 miles down and take a right...." But the balloon revived an interest in flying I'd had since I was 4 years old. When I got up there the view was incredible. I had to draw it. Since my dad was a Marine, I'd always had an interest in WWII. I decided I'd like to start drawing planes once more. This time I wanted to document history by meeting airmen and depict their stories. It was also at this time "Clear Hooter" broke up and I was introduced to Robert Taylor's aviation art. I went to a Virgina Bader art symposium and met the guest Adolf Galland, Don Lopez, Hugh Godfrey and Johnny Johnson. I was also introduced to Robert S Johnson 2nd highest USAAF ace in the ETO during WWII. He was, like myself, a spectator. We got to talking and I asked him if he would be interested in discussing an incident or two that would be the start of an aviation art project I was considering? He consented readily. I hate his were my first because the work has improved so much down through the years. Since at that time I'd gone back to school for my BA in commercial graphics they let me work pretty much on that project so long as I fulfilled the rest of the critera for the course. When I got out of there I went to work for a local newspaper as a pressman / process camerman. Times changed quickly and the process camera was phased out in favor of computers. The paper was then bought out by a conglomerate. It became no fun to work there. It was then I was offered work as an etcher / sand blaster / shape carver at a monument company. I stayed there several years until we had a falling out. I'm now finishing up via attrition my aviation project that I've titled "Split Second." In the next several years I'll have no one left to relate first had accounts. At that point if I'm still around, this project will reach its conclusion. I hope at that point to be able to interest someone in publishing a book. I still write music and now have about 40 original songs....that are "keepers" No telling how many that aren't. I'm just starting to work on another art project of 50's 60's and early 70's racing cars as well as the glass etchings. Wheather they'll be successful is yet to be seen, since the economy isn't what it used to be. Art is usually one of the first things to suffer when the economy sucks. Hell... I guess that brings us back to why I hate NAFTA, the WTO and FTAA so much. Lets not go there again. That's about the high spots except my getting married and my wife working as a USPS carrier and supports my artistic interest. Maybe one day either the music or the art will come to fruition and actually yeild some rewards while I'm still alive to enjoy them. Most of the time artist have to die to be appreciated. That sucks!

[grantrl78]

Damn you have an intersting life. And i thought I would never know the meaning of clear hooter I think hands down the 40's were the most interesting and important time of last century. I can't imagine any other time being any more amazing. It is depressing that those guys that made that time so good are all dying My generation will never live up to their accomplishments.

"music or the art will come to fruition and actually yeild some rewards" I know that feeling. I don't even have a car and I am a regular at AF. Something is telling me that art isn't going to make me any money. But it is fun to do!

That camera department job you had is similar to what I do now at a screenprint company. Making plates ain't very glamourous work. I really hate it.

Thanks for posting! You should write a book

[ClearHooter]

"Ask and ye shall receive" they say. Clear Hooter was, or is, a British horn and switch company. When I saw the name I just thought "cool band name." I'm also kind of fond of the name "Dreadnought." If I get another band (after 10 years the urge is coming back) it'll be a toss up for those names.

I liked working at the paper until it was bought out. It was a afternoon paper. If you think about it thats the best time for a paper since most of the news happens between early morning and mid afternoon. We "scooped" many TV stations and ALL morning papers when we met an afternoon deadline. When we were bought out we immediately went to a morning paper. When we were run by a small company we had NO MISTAKES!!! After we were bought out I can't say any papers were produced that didn't have at least one or two. I loved the printing aspect. I also not only processed the plates but redgistered them. We had old equipment. It was a real challenge to get 100% accuracy. One press had a redgister problem and I developed a skewing method that brought it into accuracy. When I left the knowledge went with me.

"The Greatest Generation" deserve that title. They went through so much. From the pictures and memories I have of my dad I can never recall him looking young. It wasn't WWII that caused that. It was the "Great Depression." I think. This generation not only changed our lives but our childrens, childrens, childrens etc. They pulled us out of the abyss but at the same moment gave us the power to inialte ourselves. Its up to future generations to temper this neuclear sword. This may make us the "next greatest generation" or our children's, children "the last generation."