Chem/Pyrotechnic experts.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by Jet-Lee

I thought Iron was Purified to form steel, because steel was stronger......

Nope, here's a relatively complicated explanation, all I looked at last semester.

[sameintheend01]

Originally Posted by Porsche

Iron is not harder than steel, Steel is mostly iron and depending on the type, usually a fraction of to about 7% carbon. Steel hardness and strength varies depending on Carbon, Chromium, Nickel, and other various metals content.

But as far as I know, Steel is not softer than Iron especially if it is tempered steel.

don't mean to be an ass about it, but you are wrong. The hardest iron is harder than steel.

http://www.zianet.com/ebear/metal/hardness.html

That is why metal files are made of iron and can file down steel/aluminum. If steel was harder than iron, then iron file would be filed away.

And thanks, I know that steel is made of iron (in case you were implying that i didn't know). I never mentioned that iron is stronger that steel or that steel doesn't have other desirable properties.

[Integra06]

Originally Posted by sameintheend01

don't mean to be an ass about it, but you are wrong. The hardest iron is harder than steel.

1:Sorry, and I don't mean to be an ass about it either, but you're wrong. The hardest kind of iron is tool steel, which has a higher carbon content than any form of iron. Not to mention that tool steel is also hardened and tempered. I'm a machinist with a lot of experience with steel, so don't try to argue the facts with me because I've been there, done that and know what I'm talking about. Talk to a welder or machinist that has worked with iron and different types of steel and they'll set you straight.

CBFryman: You and your teacher are both idiots for trying to make something so volatile.

[CBFryman]

^^ your comment is ignorant...one, ive already said that she "knows nothing about it" and 2 if you know what you are doing and you arent a dumbass about it, it isnt volitile. From what i understand and from the help a particular someone gave me it was used to weld railroad ties togather but since the invention of the arc and MIG welder it is not useless. if you want volitile and stupid...go play with Zinc Iodine Bombs... as for my teacher being stupid...she is qualitifed to be a colledge proffessor but because she has been in the school system for so long she is actually making more money than starting out as a college professor...she is a VERY intellegent woman and probably one of the best teaches i have ever and will ever have.

[mysatilac]

Originally Posted by Integra06

CBFryman: You and your teacher are both idiots for trying to make something so volatile.

CB Fryman is right,
vol·a·tile adj.
Chemistry.
a. Evaporating readily at normal temperatures and pressures.
b. That can be readily vaporized.

Thermite takes enormous amounts of heat to light, much hotter than a blowtorch, Its not like its nitro glycerine, a combustible gas, or pure sodium, which are all much more dangerous to deal with, the truth is dry ice is more dangerous,

Again true, Thermite was used to weld railroad ties together, and was safely transported and contained which made it ideal,
The only danger associated with thermite is the extremly high burning tempertures, so be careful and have yourself a safe place to do it with sand and a hose incase you do have an unforseen problem,

CBFryman has done his research (even here), so go do some of your own then contradict him, or argue over which is harder some more

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by sameintheend01

don't mean to be an ass about it, but you are wrong. The hardest iron is harder than steel.

http://www.zianet.com/ebear/metal/hardness.html

That is why metal files are made of iron and can file down steel/aluminum. If steel was harder than iron, then iron file would be filed away.

And thanks, I know that steel is made of iron (in case you were implying that i didn't know). I never mentioned that iron is stronger that steel or that steel doesn't have other desirable properties.

No offense taken, my knowledge is limited to Second Year Univeristy courses, which is by no means an authoritative soruce.

However, in that link you provided, it clearly states in all cases that hardened steel is the hardest metal, by 22 on the Brinell test!

I only stated where steel comes due to the fact that it was the basis for ilustrating my point and, helpful to others that may not have understood where I was coming from.

In response to the bit about steel being stronger than Iron, I also didn't say anything about strength comparisons, so I'm not sure where that came from.

Originally Posted by CBFryman

it was used to weld railroad ties

Do you have any railroad ties to weld? You say your teacher "knows nothing about it" and all of a sudden you're qualified to create and use such a substance? I'm not arguing your professor's qualifications, I'm sure they are there. I'm saying that you probably shouldn't fuck around with something that has serious risk associated with it, especially when your knowledge is practically nothing in terms of the qualifications required for handling and using such a substance.

That's all I'm going to say in this thread, we have people who know what they're talking about, and arguing is pointless.

[sameintheend01]

Originally Posted by Integra06

1:Sorry, and I don't mean to be an ass about it either, but you're wrong. The hardest kind of iron is tool steel, which has a higher carbon content than any form of iron. Not to mention that tool steel is also hardened and tempered. I'm a machinist with a lot of experience with steel, so don't try to argue the facts with me because I've been there, done that and know what I'm talking about. Talk to a welder or machinist that has worked with iron and different types of steel and they'll set you straight.

i worked as a mechanical engineering last summer, and i asked my boss, a mechanical engineer with 10 yrs experience. so please, explain to me why metal files are made of iron and not steel?

[sameintheend01]

Originally Posted by Porsche

No offense taken, my knowledge is limited to Second Year Univeristy courses, which is by no means an authoritative soruce.

However, in that link you provided, it clearly states in all cases that hardened steel is the hardest metal, by 22 on the Brinell test!

well, shit, i totally didn't even see that. well, i suppose that it has to do with the type of iron and type of steel being compared. i'm still sticking by original point that iron is harder than steel just b/c of the fact that files are made of iron.

i will email my old boss (mechanical engineer) and ask him about it to make sure and i'll post what he says, even if it makes me look like a douche

peace

[dugie6551]

I'm waiting for the news story ... "Student Blows up Half the School Under Supervision of Chem Lab Teacher !!"

[CBFryman]

anyone who thinks thermite explods is a complete dumbfuck, im sorry to say it. Yes, it can be used in a bomb when prepared in such a way to make it a bomb, i am no preparing it in such a way as to make it a bomb. Yet even still it isnt like a giant explosion, im not making massive quantities, im not doing it at school, i am doing it in my back yard which is over one acre and there is plenty of sand and water handy to contain the heat being released and water to extinguishing it by seperating the two reactants.

What male here hasnt played with fire, especially as a teenager. But when you where burning gasoline with the can 5yds away or making a flame thrower out of an aresol can or fitrin potatos out of a PVC pipe using hairspray as an accelerant you where putting your self in far more danger than burning a small ammount of thermite in a controlled environment. as stated by mysatilac thermite is NOT volitile. it takes the heat of a burning magnesium ribbon to ignite it. even magnesium is not easily ignited, you can put a match to magnesium all day and it wont ignite. It isnt like if some how i droped some thermite in the camp fire it would ignite, because it would have to be a damn hot camp fire.

Agian, the thermite i am making DOES NOT EXPLODE. before you make a comment about me blowing something up read the ENTIRE first post. i am planning on melting through a few sheets of steel and a couple cement bricks. in other words, i am making the form of thermite that burns, as it burns molten iron and aluminum slage (aluminum oxide) are formed, molten iron is, of course, very hot, this melts whatever it is sitting on... it does NOT explode.

[mysatilac]

I agree with every word,

Check out these two sites for your hardness debate, although its off topic for this thread
http://www.matweb.com/search/searchproperty.asp

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...0910.Ph.r.html
"Every day engineers are working on ways to make metals harder, stronger or lighter - the information is always changing."