BMW M5 vs Holden HSV GTS R 300

[Tom_S8]

Originally posted by Chris
Actually, some cars in Europe are based on the same platform as some Holdens, so they are kinda in Europe. They are very popular in the middle east as well.
PS, Thunda, do you recall what magazine this was and where I could read the article? I would be interested in it.

Yeah , but the european sedan similar to HSV GTS R 300 is opel omega , which has has the biggest engine like 3.2 V6... and in the same body as the current holdens it only had 3.0 MV6 210 hp tho... and the next omega is told to be FWD ... dumbasses...

[Ssom]

bah! once a taxi always a taxi

Nah, but seriously the M5 is the better car to own, it is cheaper to run, better to go cruising in and you can pick up chicks that aren't covered in tattoos and wear mullets.............Plus every man and his dog has an HSV..........

[Thunda Downunda]

quote by Moss106GTI:
bah! once a taxi always a taxi

I've ridden in Benz E Class & BMW 5 Series taxis, seen Audi taxis, as would most who've travelled through Europe. By applying the same inane 'logic' as above it seems that every M-Benz E55 or M5 etc is but a mere taxi..
(BTW at least Holden/Falcon taxis have around 200hp)

Nah, but seriously the M5 is the better car to own..

How do you know this 106GTI? On what basis have you determined this? More details please! (I can't wait) What is your experience for comparison, do you yet own one of these cars .. or any car?

..it is cheaper to run ..

Obviously you haven't experienced the wallet-stretching thrill of BMW prices, or parts & service (a simple phone call will enLIGHTEN you .. and your wallet). Then there's insurance, higher depreciation in $ terms, higher initial purchase price (and the lost income from tying up those funds) etc

..better to go cruising in and you can pick up chicks that aren't covered in tattoos and wear mullets ..

Not that I personally need a car for a social prop .. :licker: anyway I thought all Kiwi 'chicks' were so equipped

...plus, every man and his dog has an HSV.....

feeling left behind are we? WOOF WOOF!!


ps:Chris, I have that magazine issue & will find it and let you know

[Ssom]

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda



I've ridden in Benz E Class & BMW 5 Series taxis, seen Audi taxis, as would most who've travelled through Europe. By applying the same inane 'logic' as above it seems that every M-Benz E55 or M5 etc is but a mere taxi..
(BTW at least Holden/Falcon taxis have around 200hp)

Yeah, but this is Aus/NZ, where the Beemers and Mercs are luxury cars
How do you know this 106GTI? On what basis have you determined this? More details please! (I can't wait) What is your experience for comparison, do you yet own one of these cars .. or any car?

OK so I haven't owned these cars, but my mate in Wellington, his dad has a 1996 HSV Senator 185i and it costs a bomb to buy the gas and he reckons he has never got better than about 15 mpg, and the part prices for rear spoilers, front bumpers and bonnets are astronomical, I can't give an exact qoute, but lets just call it EXPENSIVE.

Pior to his 330i, my dad had a previous generation 535iSE which he bought Second hand in 1995 and as we found air & oil filters were cheaper than most mainstream cars as were body panels and head/tail lights, servicing was admitadley more expensive than most, as was engine maintenece (Not that it was needed) and of course the gas mileage was far superior to the HSV.

Now in the case of the M5 and GTS300/SV300 I can't be too sure, but, I am sure that the above shows a BIT of comparision.



Obviously you haven't experienced the wallet-stretching thrill of BMW prices, or parts & service (a simple phone call will enLIGHTEN you .. and your wallet). Then there's insurance, higher depreciation in $ terms, higher initial purchase price (and the lost income from tying up those funds) etc

INSURANCE MY ASS!!!!!!! It costs a SHITLOAD to ensure an HSV, compared to an M5, because
1. They are easy to pinch
2. The drivers have a reputation for being reckless morons who can't control thier cars
3. They are one of the most stolen viechles in the country.

No-one steals a Bimmer, the drivers are more careful and they are also REALLY hard to get into

Plus those who buy Bimmers don't give two chardonays about the depreciation, plus this isn't a front-drive luxury car, and the waiting list for one goes out the door, meaning depreciation is very thin, those who buy HSV's are bougans who can only JUST afford the purchase price and the only reason they buy them over a 4O6 or 325i which depreciate far less, are for the image, I don't have any figures for HSV depreciation, but I'm sure it will be steep.


Not that I personally need a car for a social prop .. :licker: anyway I thought all Kiwi 'chicks' were so equipped

Yup everywhere except Henderson, where most HSV's live






[/b]

[Moppie]

Moss my little friend you sound like a Niave little private school boy.

I suggest you bend over really far when Thunder reads that........

[Ssom]

Yeah guess I agree wit that post being deleted, but still I am only speaking teh truth according to Moss1O6GTi in that above post, if Thunda downunda believes otherwise then good for him........

[Thunda Downunda]

ahem

Chris re your enquiry about a magazine test I cited in a previous post:

It's in the August 2000 edition of Modern Motor (alas one of those magazines with big pictures & small text - aren't they all these days!) in conjunction with Car UK, featuring HSV GTS (A$91,200) M5 (A$198,500) AMG E55 (A$192,090) tested on the Nordschleife (20.8km long circuit) of Nurburgring.

Here's their Datron-measured acceleration figures in brief:

0-100kph
GTS>5.31
BMW>5.55
AMG>5.56

0-160kph
GTS>11.70
BMW>12.15
AMG>12.22

0-400 metres
GTS>13.54 @ 176.2kph
BMW>13.80 @ 171.9
AMG>13.69 @ 169.9

I'll try to give you the gist of the text, using direct quotes in italics.

Estimated fastest lap times by Anders Olafsson who first raced here in the 1960s and since then has put more than 10,000 laps under his belt on this circuit are:
GTS> "Between 8 minutes 10 and 8 minutes 15 seconds"
BMW> "10 to 15 seconds slower" (BMW factory time 8.28)
AMG> "about 8.50 to 8.55"

Deride it as a product of rampant cubism if you will, but even in the company of a pair of twin-cam 32 valve mills, the GTS's specific power output is right up there. The M5 claims the title with 60kw/litre, but the HSV's 52.6 comfortably betters the E55's 48.1. In spite of their limiters both the Benz and the Bimmer run close to 260kph .. but the GTS is .. even faster, blowing the Germans away for outright speed. HSV has never admitted it before, but we're here to tell you the GTS has a speed limiter. It's officially set at 160 miles per hour, but there's an 'engineering tolerance' and it's a bit liberal. This is history's first genuine 265kph production Commodore - and it gets there easily.

The GTS has all the mid-corner speed of the Germans, but doesn't need as much road under brakes. The Harrop-developed HSV Premium Brake package easily outshines the best of Germany. And it fires out of corners even harder. What's more, it's more responsive and easier to drive quickly. Remarkably .. given that much of the BMW's development was carried out on this very track .. the GTS's steering is .. better suited to this track that either of the M5's steering settings, offering feedback and accuracy. But it's the feedback from the back-end of the car that shines. The information it pumps back about how much lateral grip remains and how much more drive can be fed through the rear tyres is its key. It's the only one of the three that can be throttle-steered by even the most ham-fisted of operators. Every ounce of its performance envelope is accessible and it delivers its 300kw in completely unpretentious fashion.

To conclude, Olafsson is quoted summing up the three cars, starting with the AMG:

"It's quick in a straight line and there's loads of torque to pull you out of the corners, but the automatic gearbox just doesn't react fast enough and it understeers much earlier than the others. It'd be great on an autobahn, but not here. When it rained, it wasn't very easy to drive, really."

Of the BMW:

"There's terrific chassis balance and the engine is tremendously strong. The problem is the steering doesn't really do what you want. You don't get enough good feeling or warning from the car. In some ways it's too good. But you don't get the right message from the car in the corner. The power it makes is wonderful, but the rest of the car needs traction control to keep up. They are working against each other."

Finally, the Holden:

"That's a real car, that GTS, and that's a surprise to me. Honestly, I was a little bit disappointed by the Germans. There are many good things and many good parts to each of them but, driving-wise, the Holden's the better car for a pure driver. I mean, if you push the Commodore, you really get good feel to it. When you drive it, all the technology doesn't take over."


Keep in mind however - as Moss106GTi says - that if you buy an HSV you are an image-obsessed bougan
whereas if you bought The Ultimate Driving Machine you shouldn't give away your ~chardonays~ seems you'll need them to forget BMW's greater cost, lesser performance etcetera

[What ya Smoking?!?]

ill go wit the M5!!:bandit: :smoka: :smoker2: :ylsuper

[Ando_Rules]

the BMW M5 because it is just plainly amasing, and plus i never really liked holdens

[Ssom]

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda

Keep in mind however - as Moss106GTi says - that if you buy an HSV you are an image-obsessed bougan
whereas if you bought The Ultimate Driving Machine you shouldn't give away your ~chardonays~ seems you'll need them to forget BMW's greater cost, lesser performance etcetera

Ah, what is the point in trying to get through to blimmin Aussies thick skulls.............

But still, The word 'bougan' is NZ term for white trash and as soon as these people scrape up 70-odd grand from under thier scummy couch and clippings from mullet-maintenance- they rush out and buy a V8 HSV to impress thier equally trashy mates, they don't realise that they have to splash out on fuel, body parts when they crash them (And they always do) and the fact they need a further 7 grand for a GPS tracking system, as they are so easy to steal.

Yet there is the BMW on the other hand, the typical owner is rather wealthy a millionaire to be exact, they know they can afford the servicing, they take into account that they could save and buy an HSV, yet they like piece of mind that they won't have to worry about thier cars being nicked, because the M5's are theft-proof (Come on we all know thieves in NZ and Aus are dumbasses), they are easier on the gas and they aren't exactly going to crash them as they take more care of thier $196,500 car, plus in Aucklands terrible gridlock traffic they can watch TV on the way to work, who cares if the HSV is faster, in NZ the pen-road/Motorway speed limit is only 100 km/h and it doesn't take a genious to figure out what car will be more relaxed and quiet at those speeds, while I admit the HSV looks better, I don't buy cars to look at.

On top of that there are about 20 M5's in NZ, yet only 4 300Kw HSV's, the rest are mediocre Clubsports, Senator's and Granges and R8's that stand no chance against the M5

Plus saying giving two chardonays, is like saying they don't give two hoot's, Or in Oz--- them poofters are so beedin reech they dun geev a dingo's bum eef eet ees too bleedin steep, the flamin mongrel's......




:smoka: <-----The common HSV owner

[Moppie]

<----- Shakes head and remembers what it was like to be young and ingorant, all the time thinking that since you had just survived puberty you knew everything.................

[Ssom]

Hmmm on another note, while the M5 is better than the HSV, I would turn the both of them down in favour of a 4WD Turbo car (ie. Evo, WRX STi, Legacy B4 manual, Escort RS Cosworth, R32/33 Skyline GTR, Celica GT4)

They blow both of them out of the water in handling for 1/2 the price of an HSV and 1/4 of the M5's retail, let's not forget they are much more tuneable and more abundant (Except the Escort) and a hell of a lot lighter, which makes for a Moss kinda car :sun:

Basically this poll is kinda pointless for me because I will probably never be able to afford an M5 and will never own an HSV, so I guess this my signing off

[Thunda Downunda]

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
Hmmm on another note, while the M5 is better than the HSV, I would turn the both of them down in favour of a 4WD Turbo car (ie. Evo, WRX STi, Legacy B4 manual, Escort RS Cosworth, R32/33 Skyline GTR, Celica GT4)

They blow both of them out of the water in handling for 1/2 the price of an HSV and 1/4 of the M5's retail, let's not forget they are much more tuneable and more abundant (Except the Escort) and a hell of a lot lighter, which makes for a Moss kinda car :sun:

Frankly I don't know how you'd cope with the above cars, as none of them offer that absolutely-must-have for a sport sedan, the all-important TV

[Moppie]

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda

as none of them offer that absolutely-must-have for a sport sedan, the all-important TV

I think the biggest differnce has to be the way the two cars are designed, and the markets they then appeal to.

The M5 is designed to do 200+kph all day on the Autobahn, and do it total comfort and style. This of course comes at the expense of low speed handling and accleration.

The HSV on the other hand is designed to work at lower speeds, and do it in a more aggresive manner. Hence its better handling and accleration figures, but lack of a TV.

[Thunda Downunda]

Originally posted by Moppie
The M5 is designed to do 200+kph all day on the Autobahn, and do it [in] total comfort and style.

You'd be right there Moppie, plus BMW seats fit more snugly around the hip, to accomodate those thinner wallets