Boxter S vs M3

[Layla's Keeper]

Heh, V8 Slayer, you want to know something funny? The all-conquering Shelby Cobra rode on an independent leaf spring setup. So did the Triumph GT6 and Spitfire.

The Corvette is not on some archaic buggy sprung solid axle setup, in fact its transverse independent leaf sprung unequal length a-arm suspension, front and rear, is one of the most sophisticated suspensions out there.

And the funny part is that Corvette has been using this setup since 1963!



Here's what the Vette's rear suspension looked like in 1963.



And here's what it looks like now.

The "it has leaf springs" argument against the Vette's handling is pure bunk. The Corvette is one of the top handling sports cars in the world when you put it out on track, and for the price is an astonishing machine. Couple that to a healthy and blooming aftermarket geared around road racing and you can have one bloody fast Corvette.

[GKR]

Sorrry to throw a spanner into the works here.

I'm pretty well sold on the M3, but from other threads and some suggestions here, some other options look tempting.

I don't live in the States so I don't know too much about the American cars. I know the Vette and Mustang are very tunable cars. Theyr'e also cheaper than the M3.

Hypothetically, what would it take to get one of those two handling and balanced as well as the M3? I know hp wise they're already on par or better, so do they have enough base chassis stiffness to get up to M3 levels with some good quality adjustable spring/damper/swaybar packages? The M3 has a stiffened chassis over the 3 series and was tuned at the Nurburgring, so it has innate handling abilities. My only concern is that they still wouldn't have the same level of pedal feel and feedback for the driver, as well as pedals that are too far apart for easy heel and toeing etc.

Also I wouldn't bother tuning an M3, but an American car I would. I know there's heaps of bolt-ons you can get there. How much money am I looking at to get the zo6 Vette and new Mustang GT to 500hp?

And are they a realistic alternative to the M3 as an all round package?

Thanks

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by GKR

Sorrry to throw a spanner into the works here.

I'm pretty well sold on the M3, but from other threads and some suggestions here, some other options look tempting.

I don't live in the States so I don't know too much about the American cars. I know the Vette and Mustang are very tunable cars. Theyr'e also cheaper than the M3.

Hypothetically, what would it take to get one of those two handling and balanced as well as the M3? I know hp wise they're already on par or better, so do they have enough base chassis stiffness to get up to M3 levels with some good quality adjustable spring/damper/swaybar packages? The M3 has a stiffened chassis over the 3 series and was tuned at the Nurburgring, so it has innate handling abilities. My only concern is that they still wouldn't have the same level of pedal feel and feedback for the driver, as well as pedals that are too far apart for easy heel and toeing etc.

Also I wouldn't bother tuning an M3, but an American car I would. I know there's heaps of bolt-ons you can get there. How much money am I looking at to get the zo6 Vette and new Mustang GT to 500hp?

And are they a realistic alternative to the M3 as an all round package?

Thanks

well it should take nothing to get Z06 version of the vette to handle better than an M3 because it already should. On the other hand for the mustang it would take quite a bit of work even on the new improved platform.


Powerwise both the mustang and the vette should be easy to mod to some big levels although the vette should be easier since it has 1.1L of displacement advantage. The exception being the 03-04 stang cobras which are very easily upgradable powerwise. So if dragracing is your thing look for a cobra.

However if you would rather fancy road racing or handling in general both the M3 and Vette will be far superior.

For an al around package the Z06 its not the best pick. But if you don't have a family or this is your second car it should work just fine. The stang and the M3 both have the advantage of seating more people albeit in so so comfort since they are both coupe.

Af far as road feel there is only one way to find out which one you like: test drive them.

[DinanM3_S2]

For all around package in I'd still say the M3 is the best, but a similar car that some like as well or more then the M3 is the newer Audi S4 4.2. Good handling, 4-doors, AWD.

[GKR]

yes the S4 is a nice car, no doubt aabout it, but doesn't have the grin factor of an M3. Too much grip

[GKR]

While I'm 90% sure I'm going to step into an M3, I'm curious as to some VERY minor mods I have in mind.

I've been down the modding route before, and don't plan on doing it again. The reason I like the M3 so much is that it appears to be pretty much spot-on right off bat.

I'm going to get one with 18's since they are the better size for spirited driving. Are the stock 18's a good wheel? Is there any advantage in getting another wheel of the same size but which is significantly lighter? (for less unsprung weight).

Brakes: I've heard they are powerful and have good pedal feel, but can fade very easily when driven hard. Has anyone had good experience with a certain brand of brake pads? Also, I've heard that for some reason the 'holes' in the front airdam are actually filled in. and removing the plastic adds much more cooling air to the front brakes and elimnates the problem. Is this true?

I love music, although I'm not a huge fans of bass bins on wheels. I like a good system to have good punch and have good quality sound at high volume from low range base to gigh range sounds. I plan on finding a car with the Harmon Kardon Hifi. Is this an adequete system or will I be looking at an aftermarket job?

I'm leaving the engine stock. I think for a daily driven street car it will have plenty of power. I was thinking of getting a carbon air box though just for a bit more induction roar, as I've heard that it soudns quite nice.
Is there any advantage to upgrading the exhaust? Will it make it really noisy? Are there any meaningful power gains to be had? If so, will it be ad the expense of bottom end torque?
What about ECU upgrades? They all claim to increase power and torque, while reducing fuel consumption. The M3 has a highly developed engine as it is, so how would there be many extra gains to be had by people who did not design the engine? And again, would the gains be offset by poor/rough general running, throttle response, flat spots in the power curve etc.

Are there gains to be had by adjusting the suspension geometry ie for shaper turn in, more under/oversteer etc. I assume if I'm getting a car that's a few years old I may be up for some new springs and dampers anyway. Has anyone had good experience with a certain package from, say Bilstein or anyone else?

Remebering that I don't care one bit about street racing. This car will be driven daily and needs to remain comfortable. I see no point in having a car with such luxuries as an M3, only to have a temperamental beast that rattles your kidneys. They handle well stock I know. I will be driven hard on the right roads, and I enjoy being able to drift the car when approriate, so it needs to remain adjustable and forgiving up to and over the limit. It also needs to remain driveable from idle to redline.

Thanks again for everyone's help so far. I hope this all turns out well

[Porsche_Daddy]

Ok GKR, I'm assuming you are looking at an M3 cabriolet since you are comparing it to the boxster s on your list. The M3 cabbie is more of a "boulavard cruiser" than the Porsche. The Boxster S is a true sports car, not a grandtourer like the M3. There is nothing wrong with the M3 by any means and I was considering it but I passed for a few reasons. First off the boxster s grips the road better. Your talking about .88g of grip for the m3 compared to .95g on the box s. The boxster is a stiffer platform due to the fact that it was not designed originally as a coup and then had it's roof cut off like the M3. The M3 cabbie weighs 3,750 lbs according to BMW. The box s weighs approx 2,950 lbs. 800lbs more is uhh, gonna make it feel like alot less razor sharp than the boxster on the track or street. The boxster has better balance and cornering traits due to the mid-engine layout. The M3 cabbie is marginally faster in a straight line due to fact that it is so heavy. It's 300lbs more than the coup. The hp/lb ratios on both cars are very close. If you want to cruise the strip with your pals then get the M3, if you want a real drivers tool then the boxster s is the best choice. Go for a test drive and you'll see what I mean.

[GKR]

Thanks porsche daddy. Actually I wasn't considering the Cab at all. Too soft. I want the coupe, for the reasons u've mentioned.

How would you compare the S to the M3 coupe?

[Porsche_Daddy]

The M3 is a great car. My father has an 00 m5 that and that car is wonderful for what it is. The M3 is a better pick if you want something more practical. I'm 24 yrs old. If I was 34 I probably would've gone for the bmw. You can't go wrong with either one, I would just go with the one that suits you best. Try to test drive a boxster s before you make your decision.

[GKR]

Yep thanks. I will try to drive both. My problem is being 24 also. In Australia, unless you walk in to a dealership with hundred dollar bills sticking out of your ears, you won't even get to sit in the car at my age.

[V8slayer]

GKR

Is that from experience or do you just think that? I was 24 when I bought my M3 about 2 years ago. I test drove both that and the Boxster. Porsche and BMW were more than nice. I didn't do anything special. Just walk in and ask.

What you should worry about is insurance. Most companies won't insure anyone under 25 for either car. I had to get mine through BMW Australia and they had a $5000 dollar excess. Pretty steep.

[GKR]

Yes from experince. They have insurance for test cars, but not at my age. Are you in the States? I'm in Oz at the moment, but may have more luck when I get to the States.

[V8slayer]

That's crazy. I live in Brisbane. The dealers couldn't care less how old I was as long as I was willing to shell out the money.

The insurance problem I encountered was when I was ready to take delivery. Not at the test drive stage.

But if you're going to the states, then it doesn't matter. You would never dream of buying those cars here anyway. M3's cost about $150,000 here (about $115,000 U.S.). In the States, it's about $55,000 very well optioned.

In fact, if you can afford a M3 in Aus, you should be looking at a Porsche Turbo in the States.

[GKR]

Yeah the ones I went to were on the gold coast. The thing was that the cars they had there were sold, and they weren't really keen in letting me drive them. Porsche and BMW were the same. I was actually thinking of sharing a lease on one, but now that I'll be in the States sooner than expected, I'll have to wait until I get there to get my car.

I was thinking about hiring a boxter or something for a day and doing it that way. I don't think they hire S versions, and I'm pretty sure no one does M3's, but it's probably the best place to start to get a drive of one.

[calgary_redneck]

Originally Posted by kman10587

Big deal, it still goes faster around a track than any car in its price range; the fact that it still uses leaf springs makes it even more humiliating for the competitors.

I've got 2 words for you too f-ing idiot