'91 V6 Camry Starter Contacts Replaced...What else?

[Brian R.]

A DMM won't test the quality of a high-current connection under load unless you measure voltage drop across a connection while under load. Just measuring the resistance of a connection is useless for a high-current connection. Under starting load, a high-current connection should have 0V difference between the two sides of the connector or terminal. I suggest you test all the high current connections for voltage drop.

[CriticalMass]

When I try to start and get the click of the solenoid engaging but the starter motor doesn't run it suggests only one thing (to me at least). The circuit from the battery to the solenoid contact screw, through the plunger to the starter motor and then to ground must not be complete. Does this seem logical to anybody else? I have tested the battery side solenoid post and it is at 12v potential, so that would suggest that there is a problem with the ground side. I will revisit ensuring the ground side of things is in good order. But let me know if you agree with my deduction...im not an electrician.

Thanks.

[Brian R.]

Your logic fails because you are assuming that 12V indicated on a contact means there is adequate current flow. All that really means is that you have an electrical circuit - it doesn't tell you anything about the capacity to flow current. Check voltage drops across wires and connections under load. You should not get a voltage drop across a good connection under load. If you do, the resistance of the connection or wire is high enough to bring the voltage down - bad connection or wire. Test all the connections and cables for voltage drops.

Did you replace the starter relay as I suggested earlier?

[CriticalMass]

I jumpered directly from the solenoid contact on the battery side to the battery post. Turned the key and got clicking from the plunger, but no starter motor action. This would rule out a failure of the original electrical wires running from the battery to the starter.

I haven't replaced the starter relay. I don't think I have the expertise to do it without at least some guidance, but I can't find anything that would help me online. Plus, I don't even know its location (except somewhere under the dash). Chiltons does not mention the starter relay. In addition, I get reliable clicking of the solenoid engaging which would suggest that the ignition circuit is working fine.

The main problem I am trying to fix is why the starter motor won't turn WHEN THE SOLENOID DOES ITS JOB. The circuit must not be complete. If I get the starter motor running when the solenoid performs fine and still have starting problems, then I will move on to the relay. Step by step.

[olaneubie3]

This discussion is way over this newbie's head but I am having a similar problem on my 89 Camry wagon. Intermittently, it takes 6 or more ignition turns to get the car started , usually on a cold start up . I don't believe it is the battery or charger because the lights/radio etc. always work. I have had the starter replaced to no avail. AS THIS IS MY PRINCIPAL CAR (and it has low 65,000 mileage), I would very much appreciate a private message if/when you come up with the correct solution ! Thank you.

[Brian R.]

@CriticalMass - Have you done the same thing for the ground side of the battery? Make sure you are getting a high-current connection when you jump these wires. A half-ass connection is no improvement over a faulty one.

The fact that your starter works, but poorly is a tell-tale sign of insufficient current getting to the starter or high starter current requirement (faulty starter). Since you have replaced the starter, it must be insufficient current - faulty wiring or relay.

Replacing the starter relay is just a remove and plug in a new one. Go to a Toyota dealer with your VIN number and they will be able to order a relay for you (probably cheap money) and show you where it is. Probably in the fuse box by the battery. It may also be your high-current cables from the battery. When you try to start the car, measure the voltage drop from one connector to the other on both cables. If there is any voltage drop, the cable cannot flow high current.

[CriticalMass]

You know what, I did find the solution...I appreciate the help from everyone. Nobody provided the exact answer, but the suggestions got me on the right track.

Originally Posted by olaneubie3

This discussion is way over this newbie's head but I am having a similar problem on my 89 Camry wagon. Intermittently, it takes 6 or more ignition turns to get the car started , usually on a cold start up . I don't believe it is the battery or charger because the lights/radio etc. always work. I have had the starter replaced to no avail. AS THIS IS MY PRINCIPAL CAR (and it has low 65,000 mileage), I would very much appreciate a private message if/when you come up with the correct solution ! Thank you.

I would try and explain the solution, but it's probably over my head to do so, so I won't bother. Of course I'm sure you are the authority since you "had the starter replaced" and don't even do the work yourself.

Jesus, comes in here and tries to hijack the thread, the whole time insulting me over it and then has the nerve to ask for a PM when I solve the problem. Quality. Have fun with the troubleshooting olaneubie3, I'm sure someone of your brilliance can figure it out.

[Brian R.]

Your solution probably won't help him. There are too many possible fixes to this type of problem. What was your solution?

[pbrooks259]

CM, if you're still around, what was your fix? Have the 91 Camry 2vzfe, and I've been stumped by this one for about 6 mos. now. Latest attempt was replacing starter solenoid contacts & cleaning the washer-like one around the plunger; still have the 1 click from somewhere, maybe the starter relay? BTW, is that under the dash to left or under the hood, only thing similar under the hood that I saw was EFI relay, same part, I think. Probably should do the voltage drop check on certain circuit components; probably a highly resistant component, cable, terminal, ground, etc. They did seem to all have continuity, but I suppose even a tiny resistance at high amps can cause a noticeable voltage drop. So far have also replaced battery, wife did that; taken apart neutral safety switch and cleaned contacts some appeared burned a bit and reinstalled as accurately as could; replaced starter/solenoid with rebuilt, twice; replaced ignition switch, wasn't it so returned it, thankfully; and put a heat shield over the solenoid. Kind of at a loss now, but I'm going to go ahead & swap the starter relay, if I can find it, costs only about $14. Seems to be a very heat/engine heat related problem; with colder weather it rarely happens, except seemingly after a 10 mile drive or so. I know heat can increase resistance, and that may very well be it, but, if so, where?

[pbrooks259]

Boy! This has been driving me nuts! Check out this link, talks a bit about starter motor windings and starter relay problems:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...dbca0245bd30c6

In my case, thinking it may very well be the the starter motor windings shorting upon expansion (especially since seemingly heat-related), a possibility I've heard of (link above)--I've replaced it twice with rebuilds; probably why one should perhaps buy a new starter as opposed to rebuilt. They probably don't do any rebuilding regarding the stator or rotor, probably just the more consumable parts. Also, as the fellow says, they're probably cold when they test the motors they rebuild and don't display the heat-related problem.

On another front, I'm going to stop by Toyota and see if they can confirm the starter relay location; again, the relay I thought was it under the hood states "EFI", the 3 possibilities behind the driver side kick panel stated, I think, "TAIL" and "defrost" (or "defog"????), not sure. The 3rd was way back behind the kick panel; that's the one I replaced not knowing for certain whether was the right one. If not, I can just pull it later.

May have to drop some serious cash for a new starter. Don't really know yet.