oh happy day!

[thegladhatter]

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

sure, maybe your medical records havent been searched, or your phone tapped (but you wouldnt be told if they were) but they could be. and other peoples have.

WHOSE? If they were there was a damned good reason!

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

doesnt that bug you? doesnt it just hit you at the core to know the very rights you hold so dear are being violated by your government? sure, maybe not you personally, but your protection against those violations is gone.

No... I have NOTHING TO HIDE!!!

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

i fail to see how you are capable of considering yourself a concerned american, yet merely shrug when the basic rights that are at the center of being american are slowly being stolen away from you.

I fail to see what you have to hide. I don't get what all the fuss is about. If you have something to hide...they SHOULD be checking you out!

[lazysmurff]

you are obviously missing the point entirely. what you are arguing is that the government should be able to look at anything and everything you do or did, at anytime they please, without question. and if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.

what business is it of the governments what i do in my own time and space?

your watching the erosion of "innocent until proven guilty" as well as the building blocks of a police state. and your happy about it.

but, it doesntmatter anyway, my joy was short lived when i saw this article

http://www.antiwar.com/lobe/?articleid=3961

[aloharocky]

I'm still waiting to hear where YOUR rights have been lost. Not "them" or "others". The only people I've seen that are really worried about this is the Canadian and Mexican drug smugglers, and terrorists. Criminals have no "right" to be criminals. I'm all for a National ID card, picture and thumbprint on it, and giving police instant access to your records. If they mis-use it, I'll sue. But until then, I'm not hiding anything and I don't fear my own government. Not one bit.

[Savage Messiah]

I think everyone here should read a book called "1984" and read critic's reviews on it. be open minded, and realize that the government is not the holy, foolproof, adept, utopian entity that you view it as.

[thegladhatter]

Originally Posted by 97CamaroRS

...realize that the government is not the holy, foolproof, adept, utopian entity that you view it as.

I know no one who views it that way, but then I DO know people who view a booger man behind every dark shadow.

[aloharocky]

Originally Posted by thegladhatter

I know no one who views it that way, but then I DO know people who view a booger man behind every dark shadow.

Man, you sure nailed it.

[lazysmurff]

MY rights?

alright, not much to tell:

i was told not to long ago that i had to move my anti bush sign at a rally to the designated "protest zone" in clear violation of my freedom of speech.

thats it for me.

but its really not the point. its not that the government is violating rights, they are taking rights away. period.

the government cannot "mis-use" your records much anymore. so you wouldnt be able to sue. you signed that right away. giving the police instant access to your records without rhyme or reason tosses out the whole "unwarranted search and seizure" thing.

people with attitudes like the two of you scare me. your willingness to give up everything that we hold dear as americans in order to be given a false sense of security is alarming at the very best. what will it take for you guys to say "wait, hold on just a minute"? becuase if your threshold is much higher, it just might be too late.

[Murco]

Originally Posted by aloharocky

Exactly what civil liberty did I lose? I asked this question of someone else, and her response was,
"The right to threaten to kill the President." What a loozer. Another one was, "the right to not pay taxes."

Well, I've been blasted as a "Bush-lover" many times in this forum so this may surprise some, but I'm glad he is gone.
Tha "Patriot Act" did some real damage to the 4th amendment such as...
1-Accused terrorism suspects will have no access to professional services (lawyers).
2-Accused terrorists may not speak to the media about any active investigation of them.
3-Floating wire-taps do not require judicial approval.
4-Your property can be searched and seized without your knowledge or consent.
5-Library, medical, and banking records can be seized without your knowledge or consent.

This, folks, is really bad news. Granted, the suspect must be designated as a "terror suspect" by an apellat court, so the threshold to these government priviledges is high.
Still, I'm a strict constitutionalist and this sent a chill down my back!

[lazysmurff]

oh but murco....noones done this to ME

why should i be worried? only the guilty have something to hide