It starts in earnest...

[fredjacksonsan]

I'm sure that many Iraqis see the US as a replacement dictator, not a liberating force. The US should set a date to get out, and then leave. Not mess around with all the "we're turning over the country to Iraq" crap that misleads people into thinking we're leaving, then stay.

[thegladhatter]

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

I'm sure that many Iraqis see the US as a replacement dictator, not a liberating force.

Many might...MOST don't.

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

The US should set a date to get out, and then leave. Not mess around with all the "we're turning over the country to Iraq" crap that misleads people into thinking we're leaving, then stay.

Idealy we would be out tomorrow or sooner. It just isn't that easy.

[TRD2000]

hmmm another mind reader....

without having been to iraq, let alone as an iraqi, or MOST iraqi's (now that would be a trick) how do you presume to know how they see things?


i do agree its not as easy as just leaving now though.

seems to me Georgie Boy (see i AM feeling nice today, i gave him BIG letters) went to open a can of "Whoop Ass" but the word was too big and he got a can of "Worms" instead!

[Savage Messiah]

Gladhatter, none of us have any way of knowing. I believe that fredjacksonsan is onto something but it's just that, a belief. No matter what the soldiers out there are not to blame, government(s) are. It would simply be cruel and wrong for someone to not wish them the best of luck in quick, safe, successful return.

[fredjacksonsan]

My thought is that we've done what we went to do, remove a dictator and make a start on order in the country, so it's time to get out.

I've thought about an exit strategy, and it goes like this...Publish and broadcast a schedule throughout Iraq, that forces will start pulling out first from northern cities then moving southward in order to keep supply lines open.

The reason for the published list is this, which will also be well publicized: Each city will be on a 30 day countdown. The schedule will stop (or start over) each time there is a terrorist attack inside Iraq. That way the Iraqi people have a say in how long the US stays there. More terrorist attacks? US stays longer. No terrorist attacks for 30 days? The calendar moves forward again and the withdrawal continues. It's simple, basic, and gives the Iraqi people the ability to speak for themselves without a formal vote. Terrorist attacks in country means the withdrawal of US forces is delayed. If they want us out, they will cease attacking and terrorizing.

Just a thought.

[Savage Messiah]

holy shit, that might be the best thing i've read on these boards

[TRD2000]

the only thing is fred that could be seen as blackmail.

from murcos BBC thing 41% of Iraqi's feel humiliated already.

sounds like a pretty good plan though... although the withdraw south and out thing sounds similar to Vietnam.... bugger.

the other thing is, aparently many of these people are from out of Iraq, they have gone there to kill americans and it's a lot easier outside america, plus the impact on the US of a prolonged occupation and resulting world disfavour. They may well prefer to keep the US IN Iraq. Just a thought.

[fredjacksonsan]

I don't know about blackmail. I think it could be empowering for the Iraqi people to take control. Give them a schedule (and my times aren't right, I have no idea how long the actual withdrawal would take) of 80 days or something, at which all US and coalition forces would be out of the country. Give them the list of cities and the dates planned for those cities. Let them know that the countdown for withdrawal will be extended for 30 days if there's an attack (terrorist or not).

I can see your point, if people want to kill US people what better arena to do so. It's a sick world, when people have their priorities so far out of whack that they'll leave home and contribute to the instability of a foreign country just to kill someone they've never met and whose government they hate.

[TRD2000]

ahhh now thats a good question... what better arena... i can think of a couple.

Afghanistan... Osama Bin Laden and others managed to hold off (with US weapons and money) the Russian incursion. The mountainous terrain favours light vehicles and foot rather than heavy tanks. It also allows great opportunity for ambush.

perhaps better though would be ...
Afica.. particularly the congo/ivory coast area. Terrain again isn't good for big tanks etc... maybe not even Hummers. i havent been there but the congo region has a lot forest, if this was where the OIL is then it will add a whole vietnam jungle aspect to the mix. wrecking visibility, and i don't think that agent orange would be a good option this time. Did i mention the OIL, so this might be the next field of play.

I don't know about the blackmail thing either, just looking at the possibilities, perhaps just in case they could be nice and tell them where they are going to invade next on the withdrawal schedule... that way the out of town crowd won't feel that they will miss the show and Iraq can be left alone?

[Savage Messiah]

Well it would never happen with Bush in control. One thing though say as soon as our troops are almost out, huge ambush... you never know. It sounds good on paper tho.

[TRD2000]

mmmm.. it's pretty hard to get an ambush on a retreating enemy though, particularly a staggerred retreat, and especially on anenemy that"controls" the area where you plan on setting your ambush... and especially an enemy with so many toys... sattelites and UAV's etc.