blowers???

[-Jayson-]

maybe so, but what do you think sells more

Supercharged SVT Lightning or a Porshce Turbocharged?
Supercharger GTP or Audi turbocharged?
Supercharged SVT Lightning or Ferrari Turbocharged?

i never said superchargers were more powerful than turbos, just that they are easier to use, install, and maintane. And for alot of people, thats more important. Ill take reliability anyday.

[drdisque]

there's no turbocharged ferraris

another reason why blowers are used instead of turbos is that the largest turbos out there are designed to be driven by large displacement diesel engines. Therefore its hard to drive these turbos with the -8.0L gasoline engines that we use and turbo lag would be unbearable and power would come in an uncontrollable rush. Turbos work fine for less than 1200 hp, but over that they become far too inconsistent to use in drag racing and just cause you to lose traction once boost hits.

[SaabJohan]

There are sold more turbocharged cars than supercharged, no question about that.
Turbochargers are more reliable than superchargers and needs no maintenance. For stock cars they also offer a lower fuel consumption and usually also a better torque curve with the possibility to adjust this curve very simple.

A turbocharger doesn't care about engine displacement, and all larger turbochargers are developed for diesel engines as there are no large application of high power turbochargers for gasoline engines. Even pure competition turbochargers like the ones used in CART are basicly designed for diesels but there is no problem to adapt them for competition use.

There are several turbocharged dragracing vehicles with well over 1200 hp and they run fine. Dragracing is all about maximum power, and turbochargers can offer that. But since most regulations only allow roots... If the regulations was free we would have seen turbocharged cars and probably also some with lysholm compressors.

Lag isn't a issue in racing (especially drag racing), anti-lag systems can solve this. But even ball bearing turbos, or TiAl turbines alone offer a good response.

In drag racing such as Top Fuel the power that reach the wheels are controlled by the slipper clutch, not the engine which runs full throttle.

By the way, F40 is a turbocharged Ferrari!

[-Jayson-]

this is a stupid argument and i dont really care. Its all up to preference. IN MY OPINION blows are better than turbos because of reliability and ease of use. They are self contained and simple. Turbos require alot more maintanence and tunning to get them working properly. You need to have more frequent oil changes, and ive heard of a ton more problems with turbos than i have blowers. So for ME its blowers all the way.

[drdisque]

CART does not use large turbos, they only make around 600-700 hp on methanol

superchargers don't require any maintenance either, your whole maintenance argument is pointless.

lag is an issue in drag racing, if power comes on at 300 ft and you kick sideways you have to roll out of the throttle, you obviously have never been to a real track.

Top Fuel cars do have a throttle as well as the clutch.

[Reed]

top fuelers dont modulate their throttle though. power delivery is controled solely through the clutch slippage which is controlled by a computer. the driver just floors it, steers and then pulls the parachutes.

and power doesnt kick in at 300 ft, they are at full boost when they launch. and even if it did kick in at 300ft the computerized clutch could easily be programed to compensate.


the GTO, GTB/GTS turbo, and F40 were all turbo ferraris or at least came in a turbo version.

[drdisque]

actually, half the time they smoke the tires and have to back out of the throttle, if the other car also smokes the tires then they try to get back on the throttle to get the win and hope that they didn't drop too many cylinders when they backed off the throttle.

[SaabJohan]

Turbochargers needs no maintenance, and they doesn't require oilchanges more often. Turbochargers typically last longer than superchargers which can require maintenance depending on their design.

With turbochargers the antilag systems used in racing together with low friction bearings lag isn't an issue, and the engine speeds never drop under boost threshold. With antilag there is no problem to have boost before launching. If the driver lifts off the throttle ALS will allow the turbocharger to continue spinning at full speed and producing boost so it's ready when the driver goes back on the throttle.

CART had above 1000 hp when the power where as highest. Turbochargers like Garrett BR74 was used which is based on a commercial diesel design but most of the turbocharger is special made. These turbochargers was very expensive so they went back to simpler turbochargers with conventional bearings and introduced a standard engine when the CART seried was restarted. But comparing to the turbocharged F1 engines from the eighties the CARTs use low boosts, usually lag are harder and harder to solve when boosts become higher.

Today 2 litre engines develope more than 1000 hp with turbocharging and are successfully used in dragracing. This would equal about 4000 hp from a turbocharged 8 litre V8 running on gasoline or above 8000 hp if running on nitromethane.

[beef_bourito]

That was pretty hard to read, consider using a dictionary and someone who knows good grammar next time you does posts on here.

[Reed]

did jayson just compare a ford lightning to a ferrari? wow

audi sells way more turbo cars than pontiac
i would guess up to 3 or 4 times more cars worldwide at least twice as many in the US

and porsche has sold way more turbo cars than ford has sold lightnings

also, don't you find it interesting that the svt lightning gets 12-15 mpg vs a wrx sti which gets 18-24 mpg but the lightning only gets 70.2 hp per liter but the sti gets 120 hp per liter thats a big difference also the svt has twice as many cylinders but only one and a quarter times as much hp as the sti.

[psychorallyfreak]

Indeed.
And besides, turbos sound cooler.
And if you have to change your oil more frequently on your turbo engine, you're not taking proper care of it.
OH, and about ALS.....it's really fuckin' cool, but it's a dead giveaway that you're using it.

[CBFryman]

hehehehehe, finally, the troops have come in. Its a funny thing that some people who support blowers whole heartedly originally bashed turbos (ie "hair dryers" WTF?) and hten where proven wrong agian and agian. so here it is.
-Turbo's are more efficent, PERIOD, end of discussion, please come agian.
-Reliablity issue should have never have come into play. but it did and, as sabb said, turbos last just as long or longer than roots.
-NHRA is gay just like NASCAR. everyone has to be driving the same basic thing. ofcourse if Turbos where legal in top fule funny car or any other type of car Turbo would be the FI of choice after one guy pioneerd giving their already 7000hp beast back its 600+ hp stolen from the Roots.
-Turbos give good power up untill infinite power. there is no threshold at which turbos stop mkaing a good torque curve. as long as the engine is supplying enough flow to spool the turbo but not so much that even the waste gate wide open cant keep it from over spooling power it good.
-Lag is a thing of the 50's and early mid-late 80's early 90's. there are cheap 300-700 dolar turbo timers and boost controllers which can do any of a few things. Virtually eliminate lag even if the turbo's compressor and turbine arent properly matched to the engine flow, as long as its not a 12.0l diesel turbo or 125cc lawn mower turbo. Regulate boost. a push of a button or a turn of the wrist can make your car go from 0.2 bar to 2.0 bar. allow for better gas mileage and better fule economy by regulating boost and fule flow acording to how your driving. allow the turbo to spool a longer life, keeping it from over spooling by proper waste gate controll and allowing the engine and turbo to cool before the car completely shuts off.

if anyone continues to argue this they are a moron.

however, i am not and never did bash blowers for what they are. yes they are easyer than turbos to install on a 454 big block. and yes they can produce some power. but turbos are better for obvious reasons...

[Reed]

its a day!

[xyfalconsrock]

Turbos are called Hairdryers in australia, I don't go around making up names do i?


And if I had the money for a turbo yes it's the choice, but they cost heaps more than superchargers(conditions apply)

One more thing, I've heard turbo's doing more damage to engines than superchargers.

[psychorallyfreak]

Example?