Polls reveals world anger at Bush

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by Z28Josh

I'll agree to that.. But i would also like to mention that while Bush is claiming that the Iraqi's have more freedom now than ever, he's taking all of our freedoms away one by one. I mean, what's with this National ID card that citizens might have to get??? I've heard nothing but bad news about this from both sides of the spectrum.

Please identify the freedom that you lost. Which one(s) was that? What ID card do you have to get now? Or is this another 'draft' pile of hogwash?

Taken your freedoms which one is now gone?













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[-Josh-]

You haven't noticed the government trying to get tighter control over our every day lives? You can't even say a simple cuss word on talk radio such as "damn" without the FCC fining them thousands of dollars. They say they are trying to protect us from what we hear on the radio, but if it wasn't for censoring we would be hearing the truth on the radio and not liberal or conservative medio all day long. And why is everything always hogwash to you when it doesn't go with what you believe in, i never understood how someone can be so biased toward a political party that everything they hear against it is hogwash. I'm neither republican nor democrat, but i try to see both sides when making any judgement. This is another kind of thinking that will be our undoing, "my party is right because it just is"

[YogsVR4]

I am looking for specifics. What right don't you have now that you had four years ago? The FCC is enforcing laws that have been on the books for decades. If you want obscenities, go to cable or XM radio ect.

The fact is the biggest impediment to freedom in this country doesn't come from Republicans or Democrats - it comes from the IRS. They're the organization that people should be afraid of. Neither political party has eliminated any rights. They do not have any more control over my freedoms then they ever had. The IRS on the other hand does.

If you're looking for something that has the most restrictions on your freedom, I reccomend that you start looking at the proper places.













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[KustmAce]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

I am looking for specifics.

Gay marriage ban
Ban on military service for gays
Pledge of allegiance in schools
Prayer in schools
Outlaw abortion

[-Josh-]

http://www.aclunc.org/911/scorecard.html
http://www.detnews.com/2003/editoria...a10-201072.htm
http://www.kniff.de/cgi-bin/cgiproxy...les/534034.htm

http://www.bushin30seconds.org/aboutbush.html
The Bush Administration's Patriot Act threatens our constitutional rights and civil liberties. Passed by a post 9/11 Congress, the Patriot act expands the ability of law enforcement to conduct secret searches, and engage various forms of surveillance, including internet monitoring and wiretapping. It gives the FBI access to American citizens' highly personal medical, financial, mental health, and student records without notification or permission, and allows them to investigate individuals without probable cause of a crime. Finally, it permits non-citizens to be jailed based on mere suspicion and held indefinitely in six month increments without meaningful judicial review.
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12126&c=207

[lazysmurff]

you wont get far using the ACLU around here, noone takes it seriously.

however, you can cite "free speech zones", "protest zones" unlawful arrests and lengthy detainments without being charged (as per the PATRIOT ACT) etc etc etc.

[GTR_driver]

Don't forget about these actions by the Republican party. It's happened more than once!

Republican organizers don't let anyone they perceive as non-republican even come to their rallies. That is why you never see any criticism of Bush or Cheney in all those rally media shots! Read a most recent story at the following:

http://www.cincypost.com/2004/09/30/kara093004.html

[GTR_driver]

Here is the original story I read on the subject. It took a minute to find it. It was a toatally separate incident. Coincidence? No, just typical republican tactics!

http://www.startribune.com/stories/357/5021872.html

[thegladhatter]

What a load of bullshiite!

(Intolerance is nonpartisan, so I make a standing offer to President Bush backers: If you are quashed by Democrats, I will report it.) It is just because the Bush backers are more civil when they listen to Kerry's horse manure.

[GTR_driver]

Sorry to disappoint you but it's true. These events happened to REAL people.

By the way, some Republicans in this forum are a great example of intolerance!!

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by KustmAce

Gay marriage ban
Ban on military service for gays
Pledge of allegiance in schools
Prayer in schools
Outlaw abortion

When were gas allowed to marry?

It was under the Clinton administration that "don't ask don't tell" was implimented - not under Bush

The pledge has been in schools for over fifty years

Prayer in school - when did that become a requirement? Or are you saying that you can't pray in school. If the second one, you can look to the left and the ACLU for that one.

When did abortion become outlawed?


I see that you didn't have one example of a freedom you had four years ago that you lost.













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[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by Z28Josh

http://www.aclunc.org/911/scorecard.html
http://www.detnews.com/2003/editoria...a10-201072.htm
http://www.kniff.de/cgi-bin/cgiproxy...les/534034.htm

http://www.bushin30seconds.org/aboutbush.html
The Bush Administration's Patriot Act threatens our constitutional rights and civil liberties. Passed by a post 9/11 Congress, the Patriot act expands the ability of law enforcement to conduct secret searches, and engage various forms of surveillance, including internet monitoring and wiretapping. It gives the FBI access to American citizens' highly personal medical, financial, mental health, and student records without notification or permission, and allows them to investigate individuals without probable cause of a crime. Finally, it permits non-citizens to be jailed based on mere suspicion and held indefinitely in six month increments without meaningful judicial review.
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12126&c=207

Now which right was taken away? The Patriot act has gone around and around here for a few years now. To this date, I have not heard of any rights it takes away. We can agree that parts of it go to far, but it does not change the bill of rights nor does it prevent commerce, discourse or travel. Having increased surveillance may be annoying and infuriating, but it does not violate any rights.

The closest it comes it the fourth amendment

[justify]The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.[/justify]

The key there is the word "unreasonable". We can debate the reasonableness of provisions in the Patriot act, but it does not eliminate the right.













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[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by GTR_driver

Don't forget about these actions by the Republican party. It's happened more than once!

Republican organizers don't let anyone they perceive as non-republican even come to their rallies. That is why you never see any criticism of Bush or Cheney in all those rally media shots! Read a most recent story at the following:

http://www.cincypost.com/2004/09/30/kara093004.html

Imagine that! Someone hosting a rally and not letting everyone in that wants to go. Of course political rallies are going to keep out people who disagree with them. If you think only the Republicans do this you are sadly mistaken













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[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by GTR_driver

By the way, some Republicans in this forum are a great example of intolerance!!

And you've shown so much













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[GTR_driver]

Actually, I judge people on their merits and not just on their political beliefs or party affiliation.

I'll have you know that when I sent in my absentee ballot, I voted for every person I felt would do the best job for the office in question. Many of those people are Republicans, but they are also intelligent and fair-minded individuals.

(Truce Yogs...All is forgiven except that you're still supporting Bush )