granny shifting and double clutching........

[Geeko]

Doubleclutching is indeed revving the engine in neutral to sychronize the speeds of the engine and drivetrain portions of the transmission, and isn't necessary in cars with synchros. anyone who has driven a tractor or old truck on the road will be familiar with this process, though

i'm not sure if it's powershifting, or whatever you call it, but Playtoy is correct when he talks about shifting without using the clutch. A lot of semi drivers will do this (drive something for 250k miles, and you get used to shift points) which saves on effort and clutch pads. Basically, you shift at points where you align the engine and drivetrain speeds, and the transmission will slip easily into gear. With practice, you can do it both upshifting and downshifting. Obviously, having a tachometer makes it easy, although you don't need one. You can't do it during hard driving, just easy acceleration or deceleration. I do it a lot on the 3-4 shift, and sometimes if I'm lazy i'll go 2-3-4-5 without clutching.

[o14liquid]

I always thought granny shifting was when you take your sweet time shifting gears o.O

[Miataracer]

what gives with all this 1st-2nd-3rd-2nd-3rd-4th-3rd-4th-5th shifting crap? this is the second time i have seen someone say that this week it makes NO sense at all!


edit: i just realized it is the same person both times. seriously man, where did you get the idea to shift like that and how have you not broken something yet?

[Geeko]

Originally Posted by Miataracer

what gives with all this 1st-2nd-3rd-2nd-3rd-4th-3rd-4th-5th shifting crap? this is the second time i have seen someone say that this week it makes NO sense at all!


edit: i just realized it is the same person both times. seriously man, where did you get the idea to shift like that and how have you not broken something yet?

yay for ECU redline?

[Dielectrics]

This is a funny post. I agree with MexSiR on everything except double clutching. I believe double clutching is what you do right after you shift. For instance, you shift into 2nd (any gear) after redline; now, your RPMs are down and you are in a lower hp range of your engine. So, you depress and engage the clutch while holding full throttle, this is an instantaneous action. The rotational inertial your engine built up for that instance helps by lunging your car and creates a momentary void of resistance where your engine doesn’t need to work so hard to bring up the RPMs (closer to peek hp) i.e. for that instance of the lunge . This is a common trick in motocross especially when you find yourself approaching a jump or a hill in the wrong gear. Just adding my 2¢.


http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/628654

[BullShifter]

Originally Posted by Dielectrics

This is a funny post. I agree with MexSiR on everything except double clutching. I believe double clutching is what you do right after you shift. For instance, you shift into 2nd (any gear) after redline; now, your RPMs are down and you are in a lower hp range of your engine. So, you depress and engage the clutch while holding full throttle, this is an instantaneous action. The rotational inertial your engine built up for that instance helps by lunging your car and creates a momentary void of resistance where your engine doesn’t need to work so hard to bring up the RPMs (closer to peek hp) i.e. for that instance of the lunge . This is a common trick in motocross especially when you find yourself approaching a jump or a hill in the wrong gear. Just adding my 2¢.


http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/628654

Ok that has absolutely NOTHING to do with double clutching .

This is double clutching - http://www.felixwong.com/openroad/double_clutch.html & the correct way was posted 5 times already in this thread.

[Miataracer]

Originally Posted by Dielectrics

This is a funny post. I agree with MexSiR on everything except double clutching. I believe double clutching is what you do right after you shift. For instance, you shift into 2nd (any gear) after redline; now, your RPMs are down and you are in a lower hp range of your engine. So, you depress and engage the clutch while holding full throttle, this is an instantaneous action. The rotational inertial your engine built up for that instance helps by lunging your car and creates a momentary void of resistance where your engine doesn’t need to work so hard to bring up the RPMs (closer to peek hp) i.e. for that instance of the lunge . This is a common trick in motocross especially when you find yourself approaching a jump or a hill in the wrong gear. Just adding my 2¢.


http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/628654

sounds like a good way to burn up a clutch and not accelerate as fast if you ask me....

[94tegRS]

1st-2nd-3rd-2nd-3rd-4th-3rd-4th-5th

thats so retarded, I went to traffic school and when we were trelling our stories this kid sitting next to me was talking about a race he was in and he said he was in 2nd gear and he shifted to 3rd for a couple seconds, slammed it back to 2nd and the put it in 3rd again real quick for a boost. it was so hard not to just laugh in his face right in the middle of traffic school, but every cop in the room knows me and doesnt like me so I just sat there quietly.

[B1SiR6A]

Originally Posted by Dielectrics

So, you depress and engage the clutch while holding full throttle, this is an instantaneous action. The rotational inertial your engine built up for that instance helps by lunging your car and creates a momentary void of resistance where your engine doesn’t need to work so hard to bring up the RPMs (closer to peek hp) i.e. for that instance of the lunge

Whole lotta words...nothin bein said... ...Oh yeah and Im sure "inertial" isn't used properly up there...

[SpasticMonkey85]

Originally Posted by MexSiR

All the shit stated here is wrong. Damn!

Grannyshifting = shifting at low rpms, not close to where your engine is making the MOST power. If your engine makes 127 hp at 6700 and you are shifting at 4500 rpms, you are granny shifting. Shifting too early.

Powershifting = Upshifting (1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd...) without letting off the gas. So you press the clutch while you are pressing the gas at the same time and shift. If you shift like this at redline you will be mostly hitting the rev limiter for the split second, this is not recommended but it sometimes generates better times at a track.

Doubleclutching = Serves no purpose. If you double clutch while you upshift you are an idiot. Period. If you double clutch while downshifting it helps a little. The transition from one gears rpms to the lower gears is not as rough. If your on 3rd at 5000 rpms and you just press the clutch put it into second and release the clutch, the engine will jump suddenly from 5000 rpms to 7000 lets say, a bit rough...by rev matching your engine: that is setting the rpms in neutral to the equivalent of the lower gear, the transition will be smoother.

Now. Get IT?

MexSiR

Jeez man i thought no one was gonna get it right!

[bryan_johnson]

Well said, MexSiR.

In racing double clutching is used when downshifting to make the shift smoother. This is really critical when coming into a turn really heavy. If you don't double-clutch it takes a lot of torque to get the engine to speed up to the next gear when you let out the clutch. This torque translates to added braking on the drive wheels. So if your really racing hard, and you are already near the limits of traction, those drive wheels may begin to slip, or equally nasty, they don't slip and the weight of the vehicle is thrown forward putting extra traction on the front wheels and too little on the rear causing oversteer.

A "missed shift" is what happens when you fail to make the downshift correctly. When that happens you can't get on the throttle through the turn which implies that you can't get the weight back on the rear wheels making the back end really loose.

So bottom line is if you're racing on a course you need to learn to double clutch to be as competitive as possible. But, in normal driving its unnecessary unless you have lame syncros (or no syncros like old trucks).

[bryan_johnson]

Good link posted by Jackassi. It brought up the point I glossed over that while double clutching in racing, we are braking at the same time. A lot of modern cars suck for this because they mouth the gas pedal lower than the brake pedal. You can get modified pedals for a lot of cars to enable better "heel-toe'ing".

[Vtec95Civic]

True I've tried heel-toeing in my civic and I can't seem to be able to touch both at the same time. The gas pedal is too low.

[Geeko]

shit, i hit both by ACCIDENT sometimes >_<

having big feet sucks, but it's easy to heel-toe shift.

[BullShifter]

Originally Posted by Vtec95Civic

True I've tried heel-toeing in my civic and I can't seem to be able to touch both at the same time. The gas pedal is too low.

That's because 90% of the cars out there are not designed for "heel-toe" shifting especially an economy car like a civic. In order to heel-toe correctly the pedals must be modified and I don't mean some stupid ass pedal covers.

As long as your controlling the brake & gas with one foot it's considered heel-toe but in reality it's impossible to do in most cars. Bascially you use your big toe on the brake and the right side of your foot to control the gas. The pedals are purposely posistioned that way for a safety feature so people don't slam on the gas instead of the brake or visa versa.

Now if your real good you left foot brake. That means left foot brake & right foot gas. But you may ask what about the clutch, that's the whole point your not using the clutch what so ever.

Heel-toe and left foot braking are racing techniques, if you do it on the street don't wonder why stuff breaks.