350Z or Saleen

[2003_350z_Touring]

350z!

[igota20hpweedeater]

get a car your gonna be happy with! But if your asking for opinions, the 350z all the way! In a few more years more parts will come out for them and soon they will be an even bigger monster than they are now.

[longlivetheZ]

Dude...the fact you would even CONSIDER spending $40,000+ on a MUSTANG blows me away. I laugh at people I see driving around in their expensive ass mustangs...it's so funny. They paid a butt load of money for something you see a triziblion times a day. I live in NORTHERN FRIGGIN KENFUCKY and I STILL see a few saleens and rouches around town a little more often than "rarely"...I've said it a million times...mustangs are the bacteria of the road...

Pick a 300ZXTT up for ~12-15K, then dump another 10K into it, pocket the left over and just decimate all.

At LEAST get a 350Z...as much performance potential, if not more (yes it is an aluminum block, but the cylinders are sleeved)...looks 100X better...you wouldn't be like every other damn person out there that thinks they're cool...and, possibly most importantly, IT'S NOT A FORD!!!

[Stratocaster5292]

Man you got to love how biased you Z car owners are. Nevermind the fact that a NA S281 outperforms a 350 Z in every performance category I can think of, not to mention a Saleen Mustang actually also has a higher resale rating then the 350Z. And your not gonna see to many Saleens compared to 350Zs either, Saleen makes less then 1000 mustangs a year, and there is only about 8000 Saleens all together (not just mustangs).

The Saleen has a faster 0-60, quarter mile, slalom speed, and a shorter 60-0 braking distance. The MSRP is only 429 dollars more and as of right now the aftermarket is much greater then that of a 350Z.

All the stats I based this on is on www.saleen.com

Im not trying to bash 350Zs or hype mustangs, but the only reason Im posting is because I think you guys are giving the 350Z waaaay to much credit in this comparo.

[longlivetheZ]

Ok...I'm only doing this once. I've gotten into little battles regarding *insert Z car here* vs. *insert type of mustang here* a lot of times. I slammed one guy repetedly over 13 pages once and I'm not doing that again. Newer Mustangs get much more credit and praise than they deserve and I just can't let people go on dissing Z cars when they're wrong...be it on accident or out of malice. I just show facts...that's it.

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

Man you got to love how biased you Z car owners are.

No...I don't just like my car...I just don't like mustangs. If you want an american car that's truely impressive, buy a Corvette...

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

Nevermind the fact that a NA S281 outperforms a 350 Z in every performance category I can think of...

That's all fine and dandy...with a bigger engine, it should...and it just barely does at that.

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

not to mention a Saleen Mustang actually also has a higher resale rating then the 350Z.

Prove it.

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

And your not gonna see to many Saleens compared to 350Zs either

Umm...it...looks...like...a...mustang...

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

The Saleen has a faster 0-60

Saleen 0-60: 5.1
350Z 0-60: 5.2

Ok...we all know these things vary depending on countless things...weather conditions, outside temp, driver, condition of the car, condition of the track/road, etc, etc...so I believe it's fair to say it's the same. The saleen time is off their website, so of course it's going to be the best it could get...so I took the best time for the 350Z I've ever seen, which is a 5.2. I also found a 5.3 sec time on motor trend's website. It just comes down to the driver. This is pretty much the same case for the 1/4 mile time.

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

slalom speed

According to Motortrend.com, the Z does the 600ft slolom at 68mph and the saleen site gives a speed of 67.2 for the S281. You need to do better research. Even the top of the line Saleen Extreme Coupe or whatever gets less than one mph over the Z in the slolom...

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

and a shorter 60-0 braking distance.

The saleen's brakes are far from stock, run of the mill units. They BETTER do a better than good job and stopping. The stat I found off motortrend.com is only 4 feet further than the saleen...who cares?

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

The MSRP is only 429 dollars more and as of right now the aftermarket is much greater then that of a 350Z.

Ok...here is where you REALLY lose me...

Base model Saleen coupe base price: ~$37,000 (after taxes title and all that bullshit...). Then, if you want stuff like a stereo, an auto trans (why, I don't know), or any other options, you're EASILY over $40K.

Now...here is a new 350Z with an exhaust AND intake on it for ~$5,000 less...where you got $429, I'll never know. The base price for a base model 350Z is only ~$29,000. Plus, there are hundreds of them on that site for even less than those examples given if you'd not mind a used car...which I sure as hell wouldn't.

With all due respect, I'm not biased, man. I'm just educated. You seem to think I am forced to drive the car I do and I love Z cars because I drive one...it's the exact opposite...I choose to drive the car I do because I truely believe in them and love them. They are phenomenal cars for a phenomenal price. I paid less for my car than the saleen guys pay for a set of tires...and I'll be on pace with a 350Z this weekend when I install my boost controller...and that's just the tip of the iceberg. This comparo was just between the base saleen and a stock 350Z. Sure, there isn't a huge aftermarket for the 350, but it's growing very quickly. Check out the specs for Greddy's TT 350Z...you'll shit yourself. I'm also not going to go into the twin turbo 300ZXs or the single turbo 300ZXs as in my sig. The twin turbo 300s (Z32s) can easily be made into EXTREMELY fast cars. I've seen one running 10s with a full factory interior and an auto trans...and it weighs a whopping 3400 lbs. Mustangs just aren't the same calibre of car as the Z32s or the 350Zs can be.

[k3smostwanted]

well put...i give props for sitting down and writing that well informed, well thought out little essay.

[DeleriousZ]

*ahem* don't mind me.. but....

owned....

[longlivetheZ]

*Takes a bow*

I guess you guys can tell I've done this a few times? This is a perfect example of, in the words of Rage Against the Machine..."know your enemy".

I don't bash guys or mustangs or anything like that...I just show facts and the facts do the bashing for me. Z cars aren't exactly hard to defend either, so that makes it easier. The newer mustangs get way too much credit and praise and it makes me sick...they're mediocre cars, at best. Sure they can be made fast, but anything can be made fast with enough money put into it...might as well put your money into something somewhat unique and of higher quality.

Dude...if you're set on getting a mustang, get a cool one like an old Fastback...those are pretty cool...hell even 5.0s are less annoying than these new mustangs that you see alllllllll over the place...take those into consideration if you're dead set on going the ford route.

If I were going to go the domestic route, I'd either get a Buick Grand National (as far as domestics go, el motherfuckin drool) or a Vette.

But I swear by the Z car. The Older ones even more than the 350. The 350 is a great car with tons of potential, but the Z31Ts and Z32TT are everything the 350Z is, if not more....and it's proven.

[DeleriousZ]

thus spoke llz about the greatness of the Z car

[Stratocaster5292]

longlivethez- (I cant figure out the quote thing, so the references I make are regarding your posts)



I remember reading the thread where you bash mustangs for pages and pages, and you had a lot of arguments, but most of them were pretty weak. I wouldnt have minded posting replies then, but the thread was long dead by the time I read it, so Ill do an outline real quick.

-You were making most of the comparison between the 350Z and the GT, (I will gladly admit the 350Z is the better car), but a 350Z also costs about 10k more, so a more fair comparison price wise would be the Mach 1 or the NA Saleen S281.

-You listed stats of each car and who "won" each one, 350Z took most of them, but also most of them were empty stats. Weight of the car, horsepower, horsepower per liter are all pointless in the final performance of a car. Real stats would be acceleration, skidpad, slalom, power-to-weight, stopping distance. If you use these comparisons, the gap closes by quite a bit (ex: 350z weighs less but less power then mach one, so its 1-1, but compare power-to-weight and mach one wins outright).

-I cant stand it when people compare horsepower per liter. There are several ways to create power in an engine design. Raising compression, multiple camshafts, higher displacement, forced induction, better flowing manifolds and heads are all ways. Nissan chose to increase compression, DOHC, and flow rates, Ford chose to increase displacement. The horsepower per liter isnt a good example to look at for the "efficiency" of an engine. When I think of efficiency, I look at how well the engine accelerates a car of a certain weight for the amount of gasoline it consumes, and with this comparo, I believe the v8 mustang engine is just as if not more efficient then the 350Z engine, not bad considering how much older it is then the 3.5 liter Nissan.

-You use the facts, but you also twist them pretty bad. You compare the price of a used 350Z to a fully loaded Saleen. With the braking you just said "who cares", the acceleration was neglible, yet you make a point that motortrend has the 350Z finishing the slalom .8 mph higher. All the comparisons that the Saleen wins is to close to call, but .8mph isnt a judgement call. Come on dude.

-I agree mustangs get way to much credit, but so do Z cars. My friend's dad has a used car lot where they have a 90s NA 300zx 2+2. Some kid came to look at it and test drove it and commented on how powerful it was and that he heard a 300zx could blow any car out of the water. It wasnt even turbo, so that hype had to come from somewhere.

-Look on ebay or any other used car search engine and look at the prices of used Saleens, I said they have a higher resale value because that was on the Saleen site as well. Thats probably not enough proof for you, but it will be hard to find any official rates for Saleen Mustangs because their such a special case.

-The 350Z is a good car, but not great. I can come up with about 5 cars in the price range I would rather have. Its about one of the largest 2 seater sports cars I can think of, big and 2 seater dont go together for me. If I wanted a 2 seater sports car for around 30k, I would look at a S2000 or Z4. If I wanted more practicality, I would take a STI, EVO, Mach 1, Saleen, or Infiniti's own G35 coupe.

-I know Z cars have the potential to be fast cars like you said, but come on look at the mustang (or the EVO or STI while were at it) and it isnt that special. Besides, unless you are seriously considering making an 11 sec or faster car, its pointless. Both modify and get faster for about the same price until you get in the 11 second range, then the Mustang becomes cheaper because of the already present aftermarket.

[longlivetheZ]

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

longlivethez- (I cant figure out the quote thing, so the references I make are regarding your posts)

What?

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

-You were making most of the comparison between the 350Z and the GT, (I will gladly admit the 350Z is the better car), but a 350Z also costs about 10k more, so a more fair comparison price wise would be the Mach 1 or the NA Saleen S281.

Yes, it does cost more if you buy a new one.

1: I wasn't "bashing mustangs"...I was bashing that moron that I was talking to. He had no clue what he was talking about. I had a quote in my sig that he said that went something along the lines of "why would you want to take turns fast". This blew me away. I give credit where credit is due. You don't strike me as being that friggin retarded.

2: You couldn't have read that thread very carefully because it was far from being just about 350Z vs. GT. He tried pitting every mustang (even the S7...far from a mustang) he could against what I had to say and could never get over on me. I went very in depth into the abilities of the Z32TT and went into the abilities of the Z31T. I probably talked more about the Z32TT than the 350Z actually, because I believe it to be a better car than the 350Z. I chose not to go into those other cars and stick to the 2 in question, the 350Z and the S281 that you mention, to refrain from getting into huge, long, drawn out, in depth threads like before.

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

You listed stats of each car and who "won" each one, 350Z took most of them, but also most of them were empty stats. Weight of the car, horsepower, horsepower per liter are all pointless in the final performance of a car. Real stats would be acceleration, skidpad, slalom, power-to-weight, stopping distance. If you use these comparisons, the gap closes by quite a bit.

First off...How can you say the weight of a car, hp, specific output (horsepower/L) are pointless? These are some of the major factors that make up the "final performance" of a car. Acceleration, skidpad, slolom, power/wght, stopping distance are all effected by these basic elements.
Secondly...I DID use these comparisons...0-60, skidpad, etc...read my post again. The 350Z was either the same or a tick better than the S281, an acceptable adversary according to you, in all of these comparisons. The weight of a car (corner weights, actually), hp/tq curve, gearing, power to weight ratio, etc are far more valuable information than just the 0-60, for instance. 0-60 times aren't consistant, therefore are not the best gauges of a car's performance. It works...don't get me wrong...but they vary quite drastically depending on countless factors.

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

I cant stand it when people compare horsepower per liter. There are several ways to create power in an engine design. Raising compression, multiple camshafts, higher displacement, forced induction, better flowing manifolds and heads are all ways.

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

Nissan chose to increase compression, DOHC, and flow rates, Ford chose to increase displacement. The horsepower per liter isnt a good example to look at for the "efficiency" of an engine. When I think of efficiency, I look at how well the engine accelerates a car of a certain weight for the amount of gasoline it consumes, and with this comparo, I believe the v8 mustang engine is just as if not more efficient then the 350Z engine, not bad considering how much older it is then the 3.5 liter Nissan.

..........I'm baffled..........you're really struggling here, man..........

That first thing...what a stupid thing to say. You say you hate when people compare hp/L, then give some ways of raising your hp/L...

That second thing...you appear to be struggling to come up with anything you can to not admit...eh...for lack of a better word, "defeat". Have some dignity, man.

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

I agree mustangs get way to much credit, but so do 350Zs.

No, cuz there are tons of domestic guys out there that love to look down upon our V6s...and they're wrong.

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

Look on ebay or any other used car search engine and look at the prices of used Saleens, I said they have a higher resale value because that was on the Saleen site as well. Thats probably not enough proof for you, but it will be hard to find any official rates for Saleen Mustangs because their such a special case.

Of course the Saleen people are gunna say good stuff about it...what are they supposed to say?..."yea...buy our car...it won't be worth shit in 5 years, but it's ok."

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

The 350Z is a good car, but not great.

The 350Z isn't great? Hmmm...that must be why the engine in it (the VQ35DE) has been on Ward's Ten Best Engines list since it came out?

I bet that's also why the Infinity G35 (coupe and sedan), which I'm sure you know has the same chassis, layout, drive line, etc...very much just a 4 seat 350Z with a different body, was voted Car & Driver's Car of the Year (just like the Z32TT did in it's hay day...it also was in their 10 Best list EVERY YEAR it was made...) the year it came out.

But it's just a so so car...that's all...

FYI: The engine in the mustang is not on the Ward's list, nor has the mustang EVER won ANY awards that I know of...

Originally Posted by Stratocaster5292

I know Z cars have the potential to be fast cars like you said, but come on look at the mustang (or the EVO or STI while were at it) and it just doesnt stand up.

Of course it stands up. I've clearly demonstrated and proven that not only can it stand up to any mustang (or EVO or STI, while you're at it), but it can pretty easily be far superior.

[1viadrft]

Mustang's are for chicks...

[DeleriousZ]

and rednecks

[longlivetheZ]

I think they're for people that just don't know better...

[DeleriousZ]

i rest my case...