something to ask yourself

[YogsVR4]

I'm sorry. I'm still waiting on the explanations of why the Titanic watchman didn't have his binoculars. It was clearly a conspiracy. So far nobody's shown me the proof that it wasn't.

To many people around here throw out wild accusations or post links to oultandish theories and then expect those that disagree to prove it wrong. When in fact those same people have not shown any supporting evidence to back up those theories (other then sites that regurgitate the exact thing)

[Pick]

[carrrnuttt]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

I'm sorry. I'm still waiting on the explanations of why the Titanic watchman didn't have his binoculars. It was clearly a conspiracy. So far nobody's shown me the proof that it wasn't.

To many people around here throw out wild accusations or post links to oultandish theories and then expect those that disagree to prove it wrong. When in fact those same people have not shown any supporting evidence to back up those theories (other then sites that regurgitate the exact thing)

Yogs, what was posted were questions. They might have implied something, but they were not direct statements of a conspiracy, or anything. Why should you have to prove, when you are simply asking a question?

The author wasn't trying to prove anything. He was trying to get people to ask the questions for themselves, and to prove, or dis-prove the questions on their own. Fact of the the matter is, some of the questions are direct to the administration, and they have yet to come up with a clear answer, if at all.

What alarms me, is the fact that an obviously intelligent person like you, is so wrapped-up in being an apologist for your chosen candidate, that it hasn't hit you how bad it is that such questions that were presented can even be asked in seriousness, and so many of them.

You sit there, and basically "pooh-pooh" what was presented as some kook's agenda, yet you have never bothered thinking about - much less exploring the questions asked. Afraid of the answers you might find?

Remember, all that's needed is ONE. ONE question with the wrong or crooked answer, and it justifies the asking of all of them.

BTW, how would you feel, if these questions were being asked of a Democratic President? Would you be less-inclined to "pooh-pooh" then, you think? How did you feel about the sites that asked a million questions of Clinton (can you say Whitewater?). Did you dismiss those too?

[driftu]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

To many people around here throw out wild accusations or post links to oultandish theories and then expect those that disagree to prove it wrong. When in fact those same people have not shown any supporting evidence to back up those theories (other then sites that regurgitate the exact thing)

what theaories, these are questions. you said we already got answers. well i haven't heard em yet. you don't need evidence to ask a question.
i could of asked all these my self but i happen to come a cross i nice list of every thing i wanted to ask and few others.

again if you have answers try enlighting us rather then belittling us.

[werwolf-23]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

I'm sorry. I'm still waiting on the explanations of why the Titanic watchman didn't have his binoculars. It was clearly a conspiracy. So far nobody's shown me the proof that it wasn't.

But... they're just questions. No theory involved here, just questions to ask one's self.

To many people around here throw out wild accusations or post links to oultandish theories and then expect those that disagree to prove it wrong. When in fact those same people have not shown any supporting evidence to back up those theories (other then sites that regurgitate the exact thing)

Yeah -- those kind of people piss me off too.

"It is strange that some seem to want to put the burden of proof on us. The burden of proof ought to be on him, to prove he has disarmed, to prove he no longer poses a threat to peace and security." -- Rummy

"In addition to declaring and destroying all of its weapons of mass destruction, Iraq must end its support for terrorism. It must cease the persecution of its civilian population. It must stop all illicit trade outside the oil-for-food program. And it must release or account for all Gulf War personnel, including an American pilot, whose fate is still unknown.

By taking these steps, and only by taking these steps, the Iraqi regime has an opportunity to avoid conflict." -- Dubya

And I'm a little worried about these guys:

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

None of you believe the president when he says their is proof he has these weapons. You wont believe him or you'd make other excuses when the evidence sits right in front of you.

Originally Posted by Pick

Its not up to us to prove Saddam has weapons, it is up to the U.N. and Saddam to prove he doesn't.

Sorry... I couldn't help myself

[taranaki]

I'm surprised that anyone is still chasing these shadows.There's more than enough concrete evidence out there to satisfy most of the civilised world that this misadministration needs replacing at all levels without trying to create more.

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

BTW, how would you feel, if these questions were being asked of a Democratic President? Would you be less-inclined to "pooh-pooh" then, you think? How did you feel about the sites that asked a million questions of Clinton (can you say Whitewater?). Did you dismiss those too?

I feel the exact same way - regardless of the party affiliation.

There is quite a distinction between what happened on 9/11 and Whitewater. But in either case, the bulk of the questions are phrased to insinuate that something was allowed to happen.

So I'll spend five minutes of my life them.

1. Why didn't jets intercept the airliners since they had numerous warnings of terrorist attacks?
- When did the US start running fighter patrols over the entire US? At what point did jet commanders learn that those specific flights were terrorist attacks?

2. Why did Ashcroft stop flying commercial, citing an unidentified "threat" in July 2001?
- Perhaps because he recieved a threat. Thats the whole point - there was a threat and he's a target.

3. Why were there no photos or videos of the Pentagon plane?
- There are photos. There are videos.

4. Why didn't the Secret Service hustle Dubya out of the classroom?
- Why were they supposed to?

5. Where was George H. W. Bush at the time of the attacks?
- Didn't the previous question just point out the classroom?

6. Why did passengers or crewmembers on three of the flights all use the term boxcutters?
- Perhaps because they used boxcutters What else do you call them?

7. Where are the flight recorders?
- At the moment I don't know. But I can't tell what the question wants either. Either the recorders were found and their current whereabouts isn't known or they were destroyed on impact. My lack of knowledge doesn't indicate a conspiracy.

8. Why were the FISA warrants discontinued?
- I don't know what these.

9. How did Bush see the first plane crash on live camera?
- This is a perfect example of a loaded question. It implies that he did see the plane crash live. There is no evidence for this and considering that he was in the classroom at the time, he must have shown it to all the kids too

10. Why was security meeting scheduled for 9/11 cancelled by WTC management on 9/10?
- Meeting can't be cancelled?! Wow. Now thats something that never happens.

11. How did they come up with the "culprits" so quickly?
- After the attack, I'd expect the resources of the US government and airline industry to quickly go through the combined hundred+ passengers in short order and get a handle on who might have done it.

12. How did they find the terrorist's cars at the airports so quickly?
- Once you have a list of passengers, a few thousand agents can locate a handful of cars.

13. Why did Shrub dissolve the Bin Laden Task Force?
- Another example of the partisen style of these questions. "Shrub" indeed .

14. Why the strange pattern of debris from Flight 93?
- There was nothing strange about the patterns.

15. Why was no plane seen at the Pentagon?
- There is debree of a plane at the Pentagon.


Ok. Thats enough. The site is full of loaded questions as I pointed out before. They're not even as creative as the ones questioning the moon landings.

[driftu]

thank you yogs. that is all i wanted.

[werwolf-23]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

I feel the exact same way - regardless of the party affiliation.

There is quite a distinction between what happened on 9/11 and Whitewater. But in either case, the bulk of the questions are phrased to insinuate that something was allowed to happen.

So I'll spend five minutes of my life them.

(Answers that I agree with will not be quoted )
- When did the US start running fighter patrols over the entire US? At what point did jet commanders learn that those specific flights were terrorist attacks?

They don't. And they don't need to. A 767 is topping out at 900kmh at high altitude (higher=faster), whereas an F-16 cruises at 1,500 (and they used F-15s on 9/11, with low-altitude speed of 1,875). NORAD doctrine requires all errant or non-responding aircraft to be intercepted, set before 9/11, just like they did with golfer Payne Stewart's plane when contact was lost with him. The FAA, btw, must notify NORAD for intercept within 30 minutes of losing contact with a pilot -- go see if they did! (They didn't) Who got fired over that? Answer: NOBODY.

3. Why were there no photos or videos of the Pentagon plane?
- There are photos. There are videos.

Cool. I'll send ya a buck if you can post a link. But then, to argue that anything but a plane hit the Pentagon's just ridiculous.

4. Why didn't the Secret Service hustle Dubya out of the classroom?
- Why were they supposed to?

Well, yes. When two planes have slammed into the WTC, there are at least 2 other hijacked planes floating around, America is clearly under attack by God knows who and God knows what else they're planning, and the President is at a PUBLIC PHOTO-OP, it's not like it would be hard to kill him. You get him the hell out of there! You don't wait until he's finished reading My Pet Goat and then making a speech. Unless you have other information...

5. Where was George H. W. Bush at the time of the attacks?
- Didn't the previous question just point out the classroom?

Read it again -- George H. W. Bush, the father of Dubya and a guy who does (or at least used to until November 2001) lots of business with the Bin Ladins.

7. Where are the flight recorders?
- At the moment I don't know. But I can't tell what the question wants either. Either the recorders were found and their current whereabouts isn't known or they were destroyed on impact. My lack of knowledge doesn't indicate a conspiracy.

I think we're missing the point of these questions...They aren't a test, unless you work at NORAD or the FAA We're supposed to go research and learn the answer, noAnd yeah, where ARE those flight recorders? I mean, pulling 'em out of WTC would be understandably difficult, but... Pentagon, Pennsylvania? They're somewhere.

8. Why were the FISA warrants discontinued?
- I don't know what these.
The questions are supposed to make you think and go find out the answer for yourself! Go look 'er up! But, in brief:
FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) warrants allow wiretapping, surveillance, etc of any kind against foreign intelligence agents or terrorist cells in the US. After PATRIOT passed, they were expanded across the States, but for some unknown reason, the entire program was discontinued after October 2002.

9. How did Bush see the first plane crash on live camera?
- This is a perfect example of a loaded question. It implies that he did see the plane crash live. There is no evidence for this and considering that he was in the classroom at the time, he must have shown it to all the kids too

'And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident."' - George W Bush

The problem is, he definitely didn't see the second plane hit, cuz that's when Card came in and told him the nation was under attack. And there was no live coverage of the first plane hitting. Therefore -- this is a lie.

10. Why was security meeting scheduled for 9/11 cancelled by WTC management on 9/10?
- Meeting can't be cancelled?! Wow. Now thats something that never happens.

You'll admit the timing is a little interesting.

11. How did they come up with the "culprits" so quickly?
- After the attack, I'd expect the resources of the US government and airline industry to quickly go through the combined hundred+ passengers in short order and get a handle on who might have done it.

Sadly, they should've worked better, cuz a bunch of the hijackers are still alive and loudly protesting their innocence...

12. How did they find the terrorist's cars at the airports so quickly?
- Once you have a list of passengers, a few thousand agents can locate a handful of cars.

Oddly, none of the hijackers' names are on any of the passenger lists:

Passenger and crew list for AA 11 (first WTC crash.)
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/tra...1.victims.html
AA 77 (Pentagon crash)
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/tra...7.victims.html
UAL 175 (2nd WTC crash)
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/tra...5.victims.html
UAL 93 (Pennsylvania crash)
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/tra...3.victims.html

Which makes sense, considering again that a handful of 'em are still alive.

13. Why did Shrub dissolve the Bin Laden Task Force?
- Another example of the partisen style of these questions. "Shrub" indeed .

I'll help whoever wrote that. 13. Why did the 43rd President of the United States of America, George Walker Bush, dissolve the Bin Laden Task Force?

... Cmon, Yogs! Go look into it. Them be fascinating questions...

[carrrnuttt]

You met your match Yogs - somebody with more time on their hands than you, or me for that matter.

You've gotta admit, he's a rung above you in this particular ladder.

Your turn to take a step-up. Hurry, elections are almost upon us.

[YogsVR4]

Cool. I'll send ya a buck if you can post a link. But then, to argue that anything but a plane hit the Pentagon's just ridiculous.

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon..._20020316.html

I'd like the dollar in US currency please.

Well, yes. When two planes have slammed into the WTC, there are at least 2 other hijacked planes floating around, America is clearly under attack by God knows who and God knows what else they're planning, and the President is at a PUBLIC PHOTO-OP, it's not like it would be hard to kill him. You get him the hell out of there! You don't wait until he's finished reading My Pet Goat and then making a speech. Unless you have other information...

It would be very difficult to kill him. Slamming a plane into a small target that blends in with the rest of the buildings is not an easy thing to do (as most people have a hard time training for this)

Read it again -- George H. W. Bush, the father of Dubya and a guy who does (or at least used to until November 2001) lots of business with the Bin Ladins.

My mistake. Its clear we need to know where he was. By the way, where was Clinton at the time of the attack? Jimmy Carter? Ford? If the question is to insinuate that the Bin Laden family shouldn't be allowed to do business because of what their son has done, then once again it shows the angle of the questions.

You'll admit the timing is a little interesting

Coincidences happen all the time. I just don't see a conspiracy behind every one of them.

I'll help whoever wrote that. 13. Why did the 43rd President of the United States of America, George Walker Bush, dissolve the Bin Laden Task Force?

So what? The point of me putting that question there was to point out how loaded they were and the bias of the person(s) who wrote it. Rephrasing the question doesn't change that fact.


Lastly, for carrrnuttt, I'm not up any ladder and this isn't a competition. I'm ony pointing out how loaded the questions are. I've made that point. I'm not here to argue each and every question. The fact you dislike Bush isn't lost and you're acting as a cheerleader/instigator is not becoming.

[DGB454]

I think Gore set the whole thing up. He is friends with at least 1 person of the Arab nationality. He wasn't at either of the WTCs or the Pentagon or the field that the other plane crashed in that day. He saw the report on TV and heard about it on the radio. He has been in a plane. He has a motive.(revenge against Bush for loosing the election.) That's all the proof I need.

[driftu]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon..._20020316.html

I'd like the dollar in US currency please.

great pics but where is the plane? all i see is smoke, water and the building.he asked for a picture of the plane.

Originally Posted by yogsvr4

It would be very difficult to kill him. Slamming a plane into a small target that blends in with the rest of the buildings is not an easy thing to do (as most people have a hard time training for this)

alright so a plane couldn't get to him. what about a sniper or suicide bomber or some shit like that? they should of rushed him out. the country was under attack.

Originally Posted by yogsvr4

My mistake. Its clear we need to know where he was. By the way, where was Clinton at the time of the attack? Jimmy Carter? Ford? If the question is to insinuate that the Bin Laden family shouldn't be allowed to do business because of what their son has done, then once again it shows the angle of the questions.

would you do business with some who tryed to hunt and kill your son, after you got him to fight a war for you?

Originally Posted by yogsvr4

So what? The point of me putting that question there was to point out how loaded they were and the bias of the person(s) who wrote it. Rephrasing the question doesn't change that fact.

still avalid question regardless of how it is written.

Originally Posted by yogsvr4

Lastly, for carrrnuttt, I'm not up any ladder and this isn't a competition. I'm ony pointing out how loaded the questions are. I've made that point. I'm not here to argue each and every question. The fact you dislike Bush isn't lost and you're acting as a cheerleader/instigator is not becoming.

it's not it is nothing more then an exchange of ideas. and they maybe loaded and the author of them may hate bush. doesn't change the fact that there are well over 200 questions on that page. in a case like this with so many unanswered or the answer are just unbelievible. good old bush and friends should come forward and give a little full dissclosure. only fair to people he ask to fight and die for him.

[YogsVR4]

great pics but where is the plane? all i see is smoke, water and the building.he asked for a picture of the plane.

Of course there won't be a picture of a whole plane. There was a shot on that page of part of the wing.

would you do business with some who tryed to hunt and kill your son, after you got him to fight a war for you?

That depends on who you are and what the buisness is. If you employ several hunded people, do you potentially put them out of work because you won't do business with the parents of a madman? I couldn't do that - perhaps some would.

it's not it is nothing more then an exchange of ideas. and they maybe loaded and the author of them may hate bush. doesn't change the fact that there are well over 200 questions on that page. in a case like this with so many unanswered or the answer are just unbelievible. good old bush and friends should come forward and give a little full dissclosure. only fair to people he ask to fight and die for him.

Is funny that even those loaded questions get answers, but because its not what some want to hear, they get dissmissed. The one about the plane at the pentagon. I posted a link (google for many more), theres a picture of part of the plane. Instead of hearing "Ok. That answers that question." I expect to hear the usual "where's the rest of it" or the term planted gets bantied around.

I'm not opposed to questions about what happened and seeing if more can be done to help with preventing further attacks. The questions posed on that page had little to nothing to do with that. They were designed to indicate that the Bush family had specific information about this specific attack and not only did nothing about it, they were will willing participants.

[driftu]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

Is funny that even those loaded questions get answers, but because its not what some want to hear, they get dissmissed. The one about the plane at the pentagon. I posted a link (google for many more), theres a picture of part of the plane. Instead of hearing "Ok. That answers that question." I expect to hear the usual "where's the rest of it" or the term planted gets bantied around.

there is that want to hear thing again. i would love to believe that Bush and friends are telling the truth. planted yeah i heard that one to. hard to move a airplane wing undetected through a city. like he said the "to argue that anything but a plane hit the Pentagon's just ridiculous".

Originally Posted by yogsvr4

I'm not opposed to questions about what happened and seeing if more can be done to help with preventing further attacks. The questions posed on that page had little to nothing to do with that. They were designed to indicate that the Bush family had specific information about this specific attack and not only did nothing about it, they were will willing participants.

well the only people that know for sure seem to be tight lipped. they knew about pearl harbour before the attack. it isn't to far fetched to think they knew about 9/11.