What a car

[Thunda Downunda]

Cheers!
The TR1, 2 & those very pretty TR3s are easy to spot with their appealing cut-down doors.

To my mind, comparing Triumph sports cars to equivalent MGs was like comparing the Rolling Stones to the Beatles, the Trumpys were always rortier, meaner, even nastier if you get my drift.

Of note, I thought the restyle done by Michelotti from TR5 to TR6 was one of the most effective facelifts ever, transforming a 'traditional' sportster into one of the snazziest 70s-style cars around.

Of small interest, as you're a Kiwi, a chap near me with a TR7 has converted his to Holden 308 (Commodore) engine, g'box, diff etc, even integrating VK (1985) Commodore tail lights, bumper too. Sounds strange, but beautifully done and seems to both suit and improve the car. And yes, it goes like stink

[Hudson]

As a person on the MG side of many an MG/Triumph debate, I could put up quite a fight over this...but I won't.

I agree that the TR6 redesign was one of the best refreshings ever. I'm partial to the much more rare TR5/TR250...just because of the value of its oddball status.

I'm odd when it comes to Triumphs. My favorites are the TR5/TR250, TR7/TR8, TR-X prototype, 1800, and, my favorite, the Stag. I'm looking into the Southern Cross model for future consideration. It's quite attractive.

[Thunda Downunda]

... Always interested in your views, Hudson, why not share? My impression of Standard-vs-MG sportsters is of the former always being better performers, and enjoying a 'sexier' aura, albiet worse handlers and of somewhat lower quality than the beautifully-built Abingdon cars. However, the Vanguard 4 must rate (along with the slant-6 & flathead Mopar engines) as one of the most durable & fuss-free powerplants in history ... Those little grey TOA-20 tractors are still everywhere here!

As for your list, I am aware of all, except only a vague recollection of the 1800 (did it resemble the failed Morgan 'aerodynamic' of the '60s?) and completely ignorant of the Southern Cross - might you enlighten me?

The Stag has one of the most delicious-sounding V8s around, yet this is (like the notorious Pont-A-Mousson Facellia engine) a shockingly defective design, and will break your heart - as well as your bank balance. I once rented a house above a 'backyard' Triumph wrecker, and still remember the litany of disasters appearing at my door; my amazement at the long fragile single-row timing chain of these engines, not to mention the casting sand laying in the sumps, blown head gaskets etc. Truly dreadful stuff. Most of the Stags seen advertised here either feature "Motor just rebuilt!" or are re-powered by Rover or P-76 engines, take the tip.

It was also the first time I encountered a transmission-tunnel (Spitfire, GT6) made out of ... cardboard!

Pity about the appealing TR8, Leyland FINALLY got the formula right, then typically dumped it. It only begins to make 'sense' if you also consider the MGB-V8 - everything coming together wonderfully, with the great Rover V8, torsion-bar suspension etc - then British-Leyland, wracked by industrial disputes and massive losses, looks at Abingdon (which had NEVER in its long history incurred a strike, and was profitable) and what do they decide to do?

B-L terminates the model - and the priceless heritage - AND CLOSES THE PLANT!!

[Hudson]

Typically, I find MGs to be more attractive and powerful than the competitive Triumphs. The Midget, while quite crude, is (in my opinion) better looking and more powerful than the Spitfire.

Many of the Triumph models were positioned above MG, so many didn't compete head-to-head. The Michelotti bodied Triumphs have held up well over time. And the TR6 remains one of the best roadsters of all time.

My friend with the Spitfire replaced the single carb setup with an MG twin-SU manifold. It moves much better now. And I know what you're talking about with the transmission tunnel...but atleast you can remove the transmission in a Spitfire without removing the engine (granted, you have to gut the interior first).

The 1800 was an early post-war roadster with a "rumble seat" that featured a windshield for the rear passengers...a kind of "dual cowl" roadster.

As for the Southern Cross...I hadn't heard of it until doing some research on the web about Triumphs. Quite an attractive little car. I'm a fan of the old roadster like the pre-war MGs (PAs and M-types) and the Y and T-Series.

[Moppie]

Michelotti is in my mind of the greatest designers ever, However he did not design the TR6 as everyone seems to think he did. It was infact designed by Karman.
Michelotti was unavliable at the time, but came back to designt the TR7, and the Dolomite.

Ill totaly agree that the Triumphs are the more grunty rough sports car, while the MGs tend to be more civilised. I even know and obsolute MG nut (be bought the 1st MGF to arrive here in NZ) who thinks the same thing.
Iv never liked MGs for some reason, there certainly no rational behind it, Iv just never liked them.
I would love a nice TR250, but there a little hard to find, and rather on the expensive side. The Southern Cross is bit old for my taste though.

The stag is a nice car, but I prefer it in its orignal form with 4 drs as the 2500TC. The lines just seem to flow better from frount to rear.
The stag engine however is or I should say was a bit of a mess. Iv talked to old Mechanics who worked for BL dealers here, and they have nothing good to say. However any good Triumph Restorer now days knows how to sort them out correctly, making the Rover V8 swap unneccasry. (the Triumph unit sounds better anyway.) Probper machining of the head and blocks, and stronger timing chains as well as some small machining of the water ways between head and block solves all the problems. There is one next door that is driven daily with out ever experianceing any problems.

I dont know about putiting a 308 in a TR7, could do bad things to the weight distrubution. Iv heard of ppl here doing it to the 2500TC with great results in a straight line, just turn the steering wheel.
But if you say it worls, well then he must have got it properly set up.
It does sound like fun though.

[Thunda Downunda]

I beg your pardon, Moppie, as soon as I saw your astute reference to Karmann being the stylist of the TR-6 I knew I was indeed mistaken ...

Without being rude or derogatory to Karmann, there's an amusing saying I've heard over the years about their kwality of manufacture (not design)...
It goes like this:
'People say that the Italians invented body-rust ... not true, Karmann did, then licensed it to them'

Apart from maybe the Mk1 Spitfire, or the fragile twin-cam MGA, I can't think of one modern comparable MG that outperforms the equivalent Triumph, although yes, they were more costly.

Just quickly regarding that TR-7 308 (sorry no photo) it is a real big-$$ effort, sometimes seen at shows, the guy actually completely grafted/melded about a foot or more of the rear panels of a VK to it, it looks sensational, Brock engine etc.

Michelotti also initially styled the P-76 Leyland, and although this probably isn't the forum for it, there are hilarious tales of him at first battling, then surrendering/capitulating to inept interference from Leyland Aust. Thats why it turned out so bizzare looking.

Anyway, thanks for the correction & information.

[Moppie]

Without being rude or derogatory to Karmann, there's an amusing saying I've heard over the years about their kwality of manufacture (not design)...

LOL, Iv heard that before, but its still funny!!!

If you look at a TR6 and the ugly VW Karman Ghia side by side there are slight family lines showing. There slight, but its enough that I would rather have a TR5

A TR7 with comie palens welded in. Man I would love to see some pics.
Tell him to start web page on it please.

[Hudson]

Originally posted by Moppie
Michelotti is in my mind of the greatest designers ever, However he did not design the TR6 as everyone seems to think he did. It was infact designed by Karman.
Michelotti was unavliable at the time, but came back to designt the TR7, and the Dolomite.

My reference to Michelotti-designs was to the TR4/TR5/TR250 family...sorry if my subsequent reference to the TR6 redesign seemed as if I was lumping it with the former cars.

[dejoux]

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda
Cheers!
The TR1, 2 & those very pretty TR3s are easy to spot with their appealing cut-down doors.

I doubt youve ever seen a TR1, it was the prototype and only one was ever made

[Thunda Downunda]

"a TR1"

I doubt if you've ever seen THE (not 'a') TR1, more correctly 20TS (2000cc Triumph Sports) in the metal, or Buttercup, or met Ken Rawlings either. Have you?

[Moppie]

Now now gentle man settle down!
Lets be friendly in our lovve of a great Marque.

Iv seen pics of the TR1 in Triumph World, but to see it in person would be quite a sight.
Care to tell us more Thunda Downunda?
prehaps some pics? please.............

[Backyard Mechanic]

Will post some pics of two of the three Southern Crosses left in the USA,and maybe the world tomorrow.For now heres Ma in what was a DOA and now is my daily driver.



Easy to work on,cheap parts,and always needing something.....

[Moppie]

Thats a very nice little spit!
Im guessing its a MKIII?

and I edited you post for you, changed the HTML code into VB code for the image.

[Backyard Mechanic]

Thanks Moppie,I had forgotten that I had posted over here.Sorry about the pic haven't used vb codes before.I guess I will try to get a pic posted of the Southern Cross I saw last summer.This was at major Triumph rally in Breckenridge Colo USA.There were three of them there.

http://www.cartogra.com/rs/12EE6D4D-...90277A760E/org]

Hope that works.I will try to hang here a little more.Hows the weather down there?Send us a little summer Huh?Want to take the hard top off.

[dejoux]

Originally posted by Backyard Mechanic
]

If you change the url to img itll show up on the page