Dealer dumps Vette off lift. Owner desperate for advice!

[DVS LT1]

Originally Posted by SniperX13

I can understand both points of view. Hopefully, the owner of the Corvette can understand that yes, accidents happen, and I am sure is sucks big time to be the receiver of the accident. This isnt something that was intentionally done. If the dealership is stepping up and openly admitting that the accident was their own fault, and are offering to the fix the car free of charge, then I really don't see what the problem is. I think the GM dealershp should do 2 things..... if the car is still being paid for, write it off as completely paid for, and then evaluate what to do about the car. is it more cost effective !!OVER THE LONG RUN!! to repair the damage, and deal with anything that might arise in the entire life of this car, that might stem from this... i.e. electrical problems, bad alingments, and so forth, or 2nd option, giving him a replacement corvette of the same year or newer. I see no need for the dealership to be "sued out the ass"......


why does this remind me of that female who sued mcdonalds because she bought a "hot coffee" and got burned.....

Accidents happen. Yes. What I can't get over though is the way this dealership has handled itself - the fact that people all over North America have heard of this and are talking about it means the dealerships has ALREADY screwed itself royally by forcing this Vette owner to seek advice. I can't image ANY dealership in this region that wouldn't have immediately given the guy keys to a Caddilac and ensured him that he will be compensated. I only said I'd take the dealer to the cleaners if they so much as attempted to dick me around like this guy - "we'll fix like nothing happened, and here's your Malibu." I've done sales before and in this day and age you CANNOT treat your customers like this guy has been treated (its business suicide!). There IS a customer's side to this which some people seem to be overlooking or downplaying in favour of the feelings of the people responsbile.

EDIT: I mean for God's at least tell the guy that if we can't fix it then we'll replace it - like how hard is that! This guy should have been totally reassured without question from the instant he arrived at the dealership - then the rapport can develop between the owner, the shop, and the guys who are fixing it so that even if the Vette owner is entitled he may accept something else to make it easier on the mechanics, guy responsbile, etc...

[5 Point 7]

I'm not Advocating "suing out the ass", but filing a suit in which all fees be paid in full, lawyer, etc. With the owner not being outed a dime as if this whole thing never happened...but like DVS said, He should have been ashured and been comforted from the start without shady doings by the dealer. However ANY wrongdoing and coverup would result in "SUING OUT THE ASS"

[DVS LT1]

Originally Posted by 89IROC&RS

well first off, you dont know me, so to presume to know how i would react if something of this nature were to happen to me is rather big of yourself. And no, i would not demand a new vehicle to replace the one that was dropped. depending on the level of damage of course. so long as the car is repaired and warranted against the failure of any components related to the accident and the electronics, i would be perfectly happy, although i do agree about the malibu loner and would raise hell about that.

as far as the dealership being sued for millions of dollars, again you are displaying your ignorance. The owner of the dealership, who does indeed make alot of money, would not be the one sued. the service department of a dealership is owned by the service manager. all of the money made by a service department in a year is divided up in roughly the following manner.

-rent to the dealership for space to operate, the garage so to speak
-cost of operation, supplies, lifts, utilities, insurance, security
-wages of mechanics
-and finally the manager keeps the rest, he runs the whole thing out of pocket.

That being said, he has to pay the body shop to do the body work, and put the body on the new frame, and has to pay the parts department for all the nessesary parts to do the work. so there are those substantial costs to take into account.

so when you assume that you are sueing the deep pockets of the GM corperate monster, realize you are actually suing a single man, with a family, mouths to feed, and a buisness to run. even if you dont sue, demanding a replacement vette is a $50,000 chunk of a mans maybe $100,000 yearly salary.

real life is never as simple as you would like it to be, life is not black and white, right and wrong, there are always contributing factors that you have to concider.

Uh, okay I said, “this Vette owner deserves compensation in some form other than simply being provided a replacement car for 3 months while his car is fixed… and I’m pretty sure YOU would agree…”

So how exactly am I presuming this of a person I don’t know? Well, in your first post you said the Vette owner should demand that any repair work be warrantied – this would appear to be consistent with the first part of my statement, correct? (We’re not just fixing it and all is forgotten, and give us back the Malibu…). Now since you were the one offering up this sound advice to begin with, one could assume that you yourself would also follow it should such an ordeal befall you. But assumption is not certainty – hence why I specifically chose to say “I’m pretty sure” you would agree if it happened to you, instead of “I’m positive” you would do the same. And what I don’t get is right after calling me bold you went ahead and confirmed what I speculated anyways by saying a repair would be acceptable to you so long as its warranted against the failure of any components related to the accident and the electronics. (I personally would demand more than just extra warranty if they fixed my car – like a discount on a future purchase/lease, or free service perhaps, but at the very least a guarantee that the champ who dropped my Vette will never again lay finger on the car – and tough shit if that hurts somebody’s feelings!)

Now, I’d like to know how I’m displaying my ignorance “again” (or why you’re still trying so hard to point that out?? - got beef?) Did it start with the frame rail comment, where I replied by saying I think it’s incredibly naive to assume every Corvette forum dwelling or visitor (let alone every Corvette owner) has seen the mass of a C5 frame rail prior to production. If you want to proceed with your argument that my original question was dumb then please continue, back up your claim man - because up until now you've given nothing but a comment. It’s silly to go around claiming I’m ignorant or even fooling yourself into thinking that’s the case without supporting your statement. The logical course of action would be for YOU to start another thread and poll people if they have ever seen a pre-production C5 frame rail and if they are aware of its size and design (you're the one with something to prove, not me).

Finally, you seem to think I’m ignorant for not knowing how your particular dealership operates?? Buddy, I live in a different country. Are you so certain our GM dealerships operate the same as your little shop? Well they don’t. And to be quite honest I don’t see how your arrangement make any sense (unless GM itself owns the dealership? Is that what you meant by the big corporate monster??). The vast majority of dealerships here are franchise owned, and I was pretty sure most of them in the States were too. Now I don’t know about you guys, but the dealerships up here make their REAL money in parts & service. You know the margins on these cars 89IROC. You can’t even justify forking out the millions and millions in capital needed to buy inventory if your return on investment is just what you make on selling the cars – I know dealership owners (millionaires at present) that would close shop overnight if that were the case. No, our dealership owners OWN the dealership – everything, and like I said their bread & butter is the service department. The entire dealership is insured. So you have the service manager that runs the shop and is responsible for employees and the shops budget. This service manager is not personally financially responsible or liable for anything (unless we’re talking criminal negligence) and I’m not quite sure if that’s what you were trying to say – that if $100k was needed to cover a suit your manager would be responsible personally – out of his pocket/sell his home type of deal, or if his business insurance (for the shop) would have to cover it. I’ll say this, if the guy has no insurance or limited liability for what other people he’s responsible for are doing in his shop then he gets no sympathy from me for being bent over with his pants down. If this Vette dropping story happens up here, the service manager can see if the shop can cover the damage on its own, otherwise he has to ask the owner for money or insurance. Now if the owner and service manager are in good standing the owner will bail out the service department. Otherwise the service manager says I don’t need this shit and quits, or is fired. Scenario's like these are often how owners get rid of service managers they don't like. If you can fix the problem fine, if not you're out. Its the manager's responsibility that no defective equipment is being used and that the service centre is staffed with competent technicians.

So you see, when I said replacing the Vette (either through insurance or at a loss) wouldn’t be terrible for a million+ dollar dealership, I wasn’t being ignorant. A bit naïve perhaps to think American dealerships operated the same way, but you returned the favour so lets stop arguing. (Up here unless you're looking at the tiniest of dealerships - like 2-3 service bays and tiny showroom - its going to cost you at least a million CAD to get into the game). I’m not going to argue the issue about who should get fired or who will get fired depending on what happens anymore either – your situation being a service technician gives you an obvious bias so there’s no point getting more guilt trips. Lets just hope we never have to go through the turmoil of an accident like this, and that neither the Vette owner or dealership in this case comes away feeling ripped off or cheated.

[DVS LT1]

had to join the darn site to get these...






I must say the damage isn't nearly as bad as I imagined (still gruesome to look at). And there's an up close 'how do ya do' with the frame rail - man the C5's are such solid cars, but if that sucker's bent...

After reading in the other forum how the dealership wanted to keep everyting internal and didn't want the guy calling his insurance it dawned on me that this accident is going to effect the resale value of the car (duh! never occured to me until now). So if its properly fixed and hes given a loaner (and even future spiffs - tune ups, etc...) I think it would also be fair to have an outside adjuster calculate depreciation and resale, somehow lol, to recieve extra compensation. You never know - judging from the rims its a '97 or '98 so after this he might want to sell it and buy a newer one.

Up here you can't purchase a used car without first getting a used vehicle report from MTO - sucks when you just want to buy a beater for a few hundred bucks and then have to shell out $50-70 for this report, but it contains a detailed account of the cars history (collisions, leans, owners, etc...) I could see why keeping it personal with the dealer might be a benefit, but then you're at their mercy if something really goes wrong or you're unsatisfied.

EDIT: BTW - this guys thread in the other Corvette forum has been viewed over 150,000 times!

[89IROC&RS]

Ok... First and foremost, i will admit that i did jump into this emotionally, and personally and as such was not being polite or completely level headed. I did ignore the concept that other countries dealerships may be organized differently.

When i took offence to you addresing how i may react to the given situation it is from the statement...

"Vette owner deserves compensation in some form other than simply being provided a replacement car for 3 months while his car is fixed. Thats bullshit! And I'm pretty sure YOU would agree if this sort of thing came your way."

now, i did state that i disagreed with the malibu loaner, but aside from that, its the way things are handled.

As far as the dealership "Forcing" this guy to ask for help in how to handle the situation, he probly asked as soon as it happend cuz he was freaking out, not because the dealership was being resistant to working it out.

As far as you "flaunting your ignorance", i have to admit, we all were. because until you just posted the images of the car, none of us had any idea what we were talking about as far as the damage and what he should do. But i was addressing the statements you made in several areas, typed in capitol letters, stated as fact. As far as the framerail question, if you raise the hood of a C5, you can see the framerail, If you ever see the bottom of one of these vettes you see the framerails, ill conceide that the vette owners may not have known it was the frame rail (just from the vette owners ive known) but id bet dollars to cents theyve seen them none the less. A comparison would be someone who owns a .45 colt 1911. and saying that theyve never seen the barrel because as it sits there on the table, its covered by the slide. but every owner of a .45 has fired it, and to do this, you have to pull the slide back to chamber a round, and exposing the barrel. Also, you state that you "CANNOT restore a vehicle to new condition" people do it all the time, its called restoration. You stated that he deserved more than his car fixed and a three month rental. i disagree, he deserves to have his life returend to normal, not to benifit from it. what got me was not the idea of him sueing to have all the costs covered, which the dealership is responceable for anyway, but the idea that he should sue for pain and suffering and mental distress and all that bullshit, he wasnt even in the car. Hell i got T-boned by a lady in a lincoln in my driver side door, and i didnt even think about sueing her for pain and suffering, i didnt even think about sueing her period. I got my money from her insurance company for the value of my car, and i fixed it. simple as that, shit happens, you deal with it and move on. thats how i see it.

My first post was an attempt to be rational and fair, to have an outside party ascess the damage and have the dealership handle the repairs. I got defencive when the cry of lawsuit was raised by the masses. You are correct, as a tech i am biased because i have to deal with stupid people every day that know nothing about cars, and still want to sue me for doing my job incorrectly. (not calling anyone here stupid, i just deal with lots of them in the real world) That is why i refuse to even work on a car with the customer present, because alot of the things i do, arent, well, pretty, and people get upset, even though im doing nothing wrong.

In regard to the dealership wanting to leave insurance out of it, thats shady, hardcore, and i hope he didnt take that route for obvious reasons.

Having seen the picture, i am quite certain that the tech incorrectly placed the front lift arms. and they tore through the fenders, the driver side is obvously worse so i think that is where it started to fall first, and as it angled up it came off the passenger side. as such the manner in which it fell is unlikely to have caused frame damage in this instance. i would say the damage is ugly, but quite light. New fenders, perhaps an alighnment, and he should be back in business. Although i still say an outside bodyshop should appraise the damage and check the frame to be safe.

In conclution, i again apologize, because i was defencive as a tech i did fail to recognize that there may be other ways in which dealerships can be run, and responded far to passionately in regard to the idea of people suing the dealership. I retract any and all personal attacks i may have made in my posts, and apologize for making them in the first place.

This is not to lessen my distaste or disrespect for the idea i was arguing against, but instead my admittance that to have extended that feeling towards anyone who brought it up was wrong of me. That being said, im sure this issue has long sense been addressed and taken care of in the real world in one way or another, so as i have already made a substancial ass of myself, i wont post any more in this thread. My point regarding the situation with the vette has been made, weather or not it is agreed with. All that is left to do is argue with other members, which i dont want to do.

[DVS LT1]

Hey bros. my bad too, really - I think its easy for people hearing about the incident to scream for the dealers blood (was my first reaction seconds after reading the post). If the car were really mine and I arrived there to get the news and witness it all busted up - I'd honestly be more likely to cry and go into a depressed state of shock than be furious and start analyzing repair/insurance figures (in fact you probably wouldn't see any action on my part for at least the first two or three days because I'd go out on such a binge the first night and would probably be bedridden with a massive hangover the next few).

Besides, there's really only two dealerships where heaven forbid this could ever happen to me, cause I only take my car (and future Vette haha) to two places to play on the hoist anymore - one is my buddy's Chevy dealership and its always afterhours or on Saturdays (think of the issues there!), the other is my quasi-brother-in-law's SUBARU dealership (of all places!!) thats close to my work in the city. Ya, there would be LOOOOOOTS of crying from many people if this misfortune graced me lol. (hey! where's the emoticon/symbol for horseshoes???? )

:hs :hs :hs :hs :hs :hs :hs :hs :hs :hs :hs :hs :hs


EDIT: na, thats more likely the sign for horse shit - but, they say its suposed to be good luck if you step in shit right...

EDIT EDIT: or is that just when a bird poops on your head???

[slacker_53]

[quote=89IROC&RS]The owner of the dealership, who does indeed make alot of money, would not be the one sued. the service department of a dealership is owned by the service manager.QUOTE]

This may be true in some dealerships in your area, but in my area, the dealership is owned by either one individual or a group of investors. I don't know of one case where the service department is owned separately. The service manager or service writer is just a regular working person, like you and me.

I haven't read ALL of this forum, but has anyone mentioned the fact that dealerships are INSURED for this kind of stuff?? I wouldn't just take any type of settlement and would stand my ground. Tell your insurance company the whole story, leave the car where it is, and to get an attorney would probably be a good idea, just in case you aren't going to be happy with the outcome.

I personally wouldn't want the car back. As to what kind of settlement would be appropriate? I would think either fair market value for the car or to find an equal or better replacement. Then the dealer can repair his old car and sell it to recoup his money.

With the kind of money these big dealerships turn, they could afford to eat this expense. Yea, they wouldn't like it much, but hey the way I look at it, it's up to them to make a customer happy. Even though your tech f**ked up, most rational people would realize that stuff happens.

I hope it works out to his satisfaction,

-slacker