1997 GTP vs 2004 HEMI Ram

[Ripn12s]

WS6 is a option code for the 04s too

[titleist312]

sorry to confuse you swigz but my car is an 04 gtp with the competition group package (comp g) or for short ws6 its listed on my build sheet. you were probably thinking of the trans am ws6 which in fact you are right about the 02 thing. many web sites that have info on the comp g are also calling it a ws6.

[jon@af]

I was not aware of that, thank you for the correction on my part.

[fast98gtp]

Originally Posted by kilroypr

Well remember that that makes the car great is not only the hp is the hp/torque mix. HP basically measures how quick you can get there. Torque means how much you can get there.

To be honest, the Hemi did not had a good driver. The thing has too much torque and too much hp for you to beat it. That is my humble understanding.

just fyi, you have it backwards. TORQUE is how QUICK you get there.. not hp. and it doesnt matter how good the driver is with the truck.. it's not gonna beat a gtp.. no way.. your humble understanding is way off.

[i3o2Matt]

if the truck was a lot ligter...like maybe dropped the HEMI in the Dakota...then it might beat a GTP...:-P even tho that would probably not happen...(dodge droppin a HEMI in a dakota that is...)

[sonhasteg]

Oh no, physics class flashbacks!!!!

1 HP = 550 lbs one foot in 1 sec. As long as time or distance is invovled you're taking HP...so neither one of you are correct. Toque is neither how much you can get there or how quick you get there...both are Horsepower.

By the way, a dyno only measures torque...the force applied by the drive wheels. It calculates HP by the formula torque x rpm / 5250...which is why all torque and HP curves cross at 5250.

[fast98gtp]

they must lie on tv then.. iv always heard the more torque the quicker you get there. that's why a car with 300hp and 275lb/ft torque is not as quick as the same car with 275hp and 300lb/ft torque--example: newer cadillac deville. they made it with both setups, with pretty much those numbers^

[kilroypr]

fast98 what they said on TV is not a lie. What happens is a car that has a higher torque would require less effort from the engine to rotate the wheels under load than a car that might have a higher hp. Hp is a power meassurement where the Torque is a strength measurement.
You know that the caterpillar engines start from 300hp onwards and their red lines are really low(around 4000rpms), that is comparable to many cars hp rating on the road today. But why a caterpilar engine fixed on a Ford Truck that has a 300hp rating can pull 4 tons of load where a 325 hp F-150 lightning would not even dream pulling that load? Because the caterpilar engine have a heck a lot more Torque than the f-150 lightning engine. Assuming both are bolted to a tranny that would have the same end gear ratios.

[fast98gtp]

thanks for clarifying that it is not a lie. but you dont have to explain anything to me. iv had a pretty good and clear understanding of that for many years. i was just giving an example about a car. you talk to people on here like the are children..like they need everything explained to them. please dont. it's annoying as piss

[kilroypr]

No problem, I know that you know. But there are people that might like the long version.

[sonhasteg]

Again, HP is torque applied over time and distance. When people talk about hi-torque motors, they really mean motors that put out a lot of torque at relatively low rpms, i.e. your caterpillar motor.

Someone mentioned two motors, 300hp and 275lb/ft torq vs. 275hp and 300lb/ft torq. Which one would accelerate faster. Depends...what rpm was peak tq/hp generated? 300 ft/lbs of torq at 6000rpm with a torque curve that looks like the side of a cliff isn't going to out accelerate a 275 ft/lb torque motor that has a torque curve as flat as a table from 2000rpm up.

Without a time/distance factor...in our case, rpm, HP/Torque numbers are just good for bragging rights.

By the way, the 5252 number used to convert torque to HP is not an arbitrary number. Without getting too much into math, it is the result of converting rotation over time (rpm) into a constant that can be used to calculate work (moving a weight over distance), i.e. Watt's calculation for HP.

Lastly, does anyone shift at slightly above the peak torque point when racing? If torque alone were the key to accelerating, wouldn't we want to stay as close to peak torque as possible? Yet when you race you never want to get too far away from the peak HP rpm. Why does everyone shift at slightly above peak HP? It's because HP is torque applied over time and distance (rpm). The peak HP is were the most work can be done...which is the reason Watt came up with the formula in the 1st place, to figure out how much work his steam engine could perform. HP is nothing without torque and if torque does nothing it creates no HP - the two items are not mutually exclusive.

[kilroypr]

That is the point. If you got a lot of torque low on the rpm band your car would move easier(Caterpillar Engine). Is the same thing like the S2000. The S2000 has 200hp but the pick torque at the very high end of the rpm band. That is why this car on a track setting could be outperform by other cars that have their pick torque at a lower level on the rpm band. The other cars that have the pick torque at lower rpms would come out of the turns a lot quicker.
This we have to treat it on mundane terms. That is why also that let's say the S2000 engine on a celebrity box would be beaten by the Celebrity V6 sitting on the S2000 Body even the S2000 engine has mor hp thant the celebrity V6. The V6 has more torque lower on the rpmband.
Sohasteg, tell me if this makes sense. Hi torque engine is the one that generates it's pick pulling power at a relatively low rpm range(Caterpillar Engine) And Hi HP engine is the one that is capable of reaching its pick torque in the least time.
To me personally I would preffer a average hp engine but with a lots of torque on the lower rpm band. It would really help you a lot on normal roads or circuit race tracks. If you are going for the 1/4" drag racing then you would like to have an engine with decent torque and lots of HP to move your car body quicker on the straigt line

[sonhasteg]

kilroypr...you could start another mile long thread with a question on which is better.

Your typical late 60's Muscle Car modded can hit 12's in the 1/4 without seeing the high side of 6000rpm. Your typical hopped up turbo Acura goes 12s, but has to turn 8k to do it. Which one's better - they both go 12s.

Road racing is the same deal. Some like the low rpm pull out of the corners like a 'Vette. Other's rather keep the rpms high, like in a Porsche.

I have noticed this...if all out performance is the goal you turn a lot of RPMs. Look at the top class in any form or auto racing and you'll see motors turning 8k and up. Street cars are another matter. Most of a street cars life is spent under 3k. If you don't make any power down there, it's going to be a very unfriendly car to drive.

Just my thoughts.

[94GPSHAKER]

wow i have seen the definition of elaborating in this thread

[94GPSHAKER]

by the way the reason its not hemospherical is because mercedes only wanted the name and it worked for chrysler