Peace between France and the USA

[justacruiser]

Originally Posted by DigitalPhantom

Two years ago after Sept. 11 the United States had many countries behind its back ready to help out in many ways.

Right there. Actually it's that countries were with us...so long as it didn't cost them anything. Once we decided to get active in the middle east, France got uppity because it would cost them money in contracts with Iraq and they went to the UN about it, got the UN to side with them, then when Bush said 'stick it' it made us look like a bunch of isolationists.

[Cbass]

Originally Posted by justacruiser

Right there. Actually it's that countries were with us...so long as it didn't cost them anything. Once we decided to get active in the middle east, France got uppity because it would cost them money in contracts with Iraq and they went to the UN about it, got the UN to side with them, then when Bush said 'stick it' it made us look like a bunch of isolationists.

I notice this attitude is very common in the right wing.

"France .... went to the UN about it, got the UN to side with them"

France went to the world, particularly to the powerful countries that make up the UN's permanant security council. The UN is an organization to represent the opinions and policies of it's member countries. The UN is not an entity unto itself, it's a group of representatives of almost every country in the world.

To say "the UN" means "the majority of the world". Bush tried to go to the UN, tried to convince the world that what he was saying was true, and nobody bought it. The UN(the world) was even willing to go to great lengths and considerable costs to try to prove what Bush claimed.

Sorry to chop up that post, justacruiser, but I felt it would better emphasize the sentiment.

[Stefanel1]

Originally Posted by justacruiser

Right there. Actually it's that countries were with us...so long as it didn't cost them anything. Once we decided to get active in the middle east, France got uppity because it would cost them money in contracts with Iraq and they went to the UN about it, got the UN to side with them, then when Bush said 'stick it' it made us look like a bunch of isolationists.

False, it would have been more profitable for France to go behin the Americans in this war as UK, Spain and Italy did.
I think that if most Europeans didn't want this war is a question of history and culture. Today, Europe is ruted in a culture of non-violence and anti-war because of her past : First and Second Wars mainly. But also with the souvenir of the URSS and the Berlin's wall.
So, our government (and some European's) heard people.
Another point, if we have a more "black" view, is that there is a big muslim community in Europe, and maybe we could think that European governments didn't want to create tensions.


Concerning the post of YogsVR4 : I spoke about the war in Iraq because it was the start point of the crisis between France the the USA.
From one side, I could understand that Americans could be angry versus Frenchs because nobody were sure that if there were WMDs or not in Iraq (in this case, the war could have been maybe justified). But now that we know that there are no WMDs in Iraq, this war isn't jutified any more at all ! Give me only one argument.
So, from this notice, I thought that the relations between these two countries could become as before the iraqi's war. That's the point of this topic.

[Cbass]

Originally Posted by Stefanel1

But now that we know that there are no WMDs in Iraq, this war isn't jutified any more at all ! Give me only one argument.

I'll refute this with Bush's brilliant argument.

"But he's an eeevil maaan!"

Yeup, that's sure worth American lives and hundreds of billions of dollars.

[2strokebloke]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

Bloke, thats why perspective plays such a big role. I do not think going into Iraq was a mistake at all.

And the Titanic hitting an iceberg and sinking wouldn't have been a mistake if GWB was at the helm, would it?
If GWB burned down the whitehouse smoking in bed, it wouldn't be a mistake.
If he accidentally mistook an elderly woman with a walker for Osama Bin Laden, and strangled her to death, he'd still not have made a mistake right?
Oh and most outrageous, if he ordered our troops to invade a country because they had WMDs, and then it turned out that they had absolutely NOTHING and he wasted billions and billions of our tax dollars, it's be all O.K. because GWB is never wrong, no matter how wrong he ever is!
What a funny president. He could drown twenty five orphan children under the impression that they were terrorists, and he'd still have made the right choice, no matter what logic, or common sense has to say about.

Anyway, I'm not angry with France. We can't force everybody to do what the USA wants, if anything I'm proud that they decided to go against the grain, as the world would be pretty boring without the liberty to do what you want to do.

[DGB454]

Originally Posted by Stefanel1

False, it would have been more profitable for France to go behin the Americans in this war as UK, Spain and Italy did.

Another point, if we have a more "black" view, is that there is a big muslim community in Europe, and maybe we could think that European governments didn't want to create tensions.

Just curious how it would have been more profitable for France?

European governments don't want to create tensions between them and the Muslim comunity? Do I understand this is what you are saying?
Is that why the French government banned the wearing of a certain religious head garb in schools that Muslim women wear? I believe I heard on National Public Radio the other day that an unnamed Islamic militant stated that France will be a target because of that.

[Stefanel1]

Indeed, scarves have been prohibited from French schools. But, between going in war versus a country and forbid the scarf, there is a difference... and even if this is a far less important decision, you've seen the reactions (France would be a target for Al Quaidas). So immagine if we followed the US (as Spain did)...

It'd have been more profitable if we had followed the USA, because the behaviour of Jacques Chirac has affected the relations between US and France, the exportations of French products for example ! And petrol in Iraq would have been shared with French as it is done with Spanishs and Englishs.

[DGB454]

Well I guess we will see how your government reacts when and if France does become a target.

[T4 Primera]

Originally Posted by DGB454

Well I guess we will see how your government reacts when and if France does become a target.

Depends who attacks them. The world is becoming ever wiser to the use of false flag ops.

The French are no strangers to such tactics - and neither are the Russians and Germans for that matter. You can bet the contingencies are already in place.

[DGB454]

As I said....We will see.

[Stefanel1]

DGB : France has already been attacked by terrotists (cf. bombs in the parisian métro in 1995). And the hijacking of the flight Paris-Marseille. Terrorists are present for a long time, and before the 11th September 2001... But some Americans see only what is happening in their country.

[DGB454]

I remember those. Some French only see things from their point of view.

[Stefanel1]

mhhh... very interesting. No need to discuss, you avoid true debates.
Vous semblez trop frustre... vous évitez les vrais débats. Tant pis, mais ne vous étonnez pas si les américains patissent d'une piètre image dans le monde.

[Cbass]

Originally Posted by DGB454

I remember those. Some French only see things from their point of view.

Just like some Americans! Actually, most Americans

[DGB454]

Originally Posted by Stefanel1

mhhh... very interesting. No need to discuss, you avoid true debates.
Vous semblez trop frustre... vous évitez les vrais débats. Tant pis, mais ne vous étonnez pas si les américains patissent d'une piètre image dans le monde.

Vous êtes les une insultes faisant vers les Américains. Je vous donnais soutient ce que vous gaxe me. Si vous ouvrirait vos yeux et voit que votre Gouvernement était aussi tordu que creuse alors peut-être nous aurait quelque chose pour débattre.

In other words when you make statements like "But some Americans see only what is happening in their country." Then you should expect the same type of statement back.