supercharger or turbo

[SleeperCivic]

Originally posted by MARKUSIUDIUS
FINANCIALLY IN THE LAND OF OZ SUPERCHARGING IS WAY LESS EXSPENSIVE THEN TURBOING IF YOU ARE GOING TO KEEP STOCK INTERNALS. SAFE PRESSURE SHOULD NOT EXCEED 7PSI IF YOU LOVE YOUR PISTONS AND MOST TURBO OWNERS YOU WILL FIND, ALWAYS START PUMPING IN ALITTLE BIT MORE UNTIL BANG! ITS ALL OVER. THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN WITH THE SUPERCHARGER IS TO BE CHANGING PULLEYS BUT THIS WONT HAPPEN.
SO FOR PRICE AND POWER GO SUPERCHARGER AND TO THE TOSS WHO KEEPS REPEATING SUPERCHARGERS REV HIGHER TO MAKE MORE BOOST, SHUTUP OR TALK TO A FENCE.

First of, you're definitely wrong. You'd have to change the internals on the supercharger just to compare boost with a turbo kit using a $50 manual boost controller. And, you didn't specify which powerplant can only handle 7psi. Yes, that's true in a weak engine, but the newer Civic's can handle 9psi with an intercooler and not internal mods. FMAX puts this kit out. I run a Greddy 15G which is smaller (and spools faster) at 8psi WITHOUT an intercooler.
Also, supercharging is not as efficient as turbocharging. Fact is superchargers are belt-driven. Any extra load on the engine will consume more gas. Where the turbo is driven off of already existing exhaust pressure, you actually get better gas mileage because the engine doesn't have to strain anymore.
Also, were you going to tell everyone that when the supercharger gets hot it's harder to turn over or even start the damn thing without a big ass battery?? Check out some of the pics of the battery on the F-150 Lightning.
Anywho, I believe these posts are for posting the pro's and con's of each system, not trying to sell a kit off to someone, but letting them make their choice based on YOUR experiences. Just be truthful.

[Type R]

I personally would go with the supercharger because there is no time lapse before you get turbo and you supercharger is more reliable. The power is there when you need it even though it's weaker. But it's also less expensive? Yup. That's just my opinion.

[Polygon]

My pick would be a turbo. Here's why;

Turbo:

Since the turbo is driven off the exhaust it takes no power away from the engine. Also the turbo is only working when you mash the gas so you can maintain good gas mileage while just cruisin’. The only downside is the turbo lag. But that has greatly been reduced over the years.

Super:

Belt driven so the power is instant. But there are two downsides. Since it is always running, it is always using gas. Bye bye good gas mileage. It also required power to run the Super so you don't get as much power.

To me the turbo has been and always will be the better choice. Besides you aren't realty seeing you engines real power until about 3500+ RPM at least. By then the turbo has already spooled up.

[Type R]

Hmm... ok I'm starting to like turbo now.

[Veetec]

Originally posted by Type R
Hmm... ok I'm starting to like turbo now.

I´m not thinking about both of them anymore now....
Turbo: Too expensive for me! (to rebuild the internals and stuff)
SC: Low mileage! => expensive again (gas is damn expensive over here)

[super 96 accord]

You can get a turbo setup w/out upgrading the internals. It's just that if you want to turn the boost up, then you need to start making the engine better. But you should be able to run something on a stock engine w/out blowing it up. I'm having a custom turbo kit installed and the guy said it'll run at 8psi but if I want it higher, then I have to do a lot of things. But the plus side of doing all those extra things is that then my engine will be able to handle some nos as well bye bye turbo lag!! Hell, I might even throw in a bigger turbo at that point

[neouser]

Originally posted by Polygon
My pick would be a turbo. Here's why;

Turbo:

Since the turbo is driven off the exhaust it takes no power away from the engine. Also the turbo is only working when you mash the gas so you can maintain good gas mileage while just cruisin’. The only downside is the turbo lag. But that has greatly been reduced over the years.

Super:

Belt driven so the power is instant. But there are two downsides. Since it is always running, it is always using gas. Bye bye good gas mileage. It also required power to run the Super so you don't get as much power.

To me the turbo has been and always will be the better choice. Besides you aren't realty seeing you engines real power until about 3500+ RPM at least. By then the turbo has already spooled up.

Not entirely true. First of all, a turbo, when out of boost, puts a hp drag on the car. Secondly, lag, and boost threshold, for that matter, is completely determined by matching the size of the turbo to the motor in question. Finally, the power of a turbo is not limitless. It is restricted by the surge limit.

As for superchargers, all the Eaton blowers I know of use an internal bypass valve that is actuated by vaccum pressure. Boost is somewhat dictated by throttle pressure. That means that when you're just cruising at part throttle, you can say "hello gas mileage". (Or you can add a one way checkvalve and switch to your bypass valve like I did and completely cut off boost.) Power from a supercharger is off idle. I can floor it well below 3500 and break the tires loose.

I'll be the first to admit that a turbo is much more versatile and, with the wide variety and selection available, can be more suitably matched to compliment an engine's particular characteristics. But superchargers are not as bad as they're made out to be either. Choosing one is a matter of finding which suits your needs and driving style better. Both of them are an excellent way to add power to a small motor.

Check out Alan Paradise's article written with the assistance of both Corky Bell and Oscar Jackson.

http://www.geocities.com/eyores1/page1.html

[Type R]

oooo...
Is adding Turbo on a Integra Type R's 197 horse power engine a good idea?
Anybody know how much that would cost?

[neouser]

Originally posted by Type R
oooo...
Is adding Turbo on a Integra Type R's 197 horse power engine a good idea?
Anybody know how much that would cost?

Hrm....actually, a very bad bad bad idea. Most people would say it's due to the high static CR, but 10.6:1 isn't really much of an issue. You can safely run a little boost on that without problems. The primary concern I would have is with the lightweight components. The reciprocating assembly of the ITR is designed to spin up quickly to stratospheric rpm, but the problem is that they're not designed to withstand massive pressure. Look at it kind of this way. The ITR has high static CR, which gives it great power at TDC and plenty of driving momentum to spin up those lightweight pistons and rods, but that's a short burst of power that doesn't follow the piston down. It's like a bat hitting a ball. The energy from the swung bat hits the ball and the ball carries the energy and continues to travel away from the bat. Now, if you turbo that puppy, you're increasing the cylinder pressure and putting a downward force on those same lightweight pistons and rods all the way down. The energy isn't transferred into the piston and quickly diminished, it's staying right on top of it. That's bound to take it's toll on all the bearings. You could always change out the pistons and rods and lower the static CR, but that defeats the entire purpose of starting with a B18C5. A big part of that 197 hp is from the high static CR and lightweight assembly. You'll probably want to rethink adding boost to that motor. You can definitely do it, but it's just not the ideal motor to do it to...

[TypeSi]

just get the turbo i think u will be happier cuz if u get a supercharger after a while i feel u will be like :o , just an opinion

[Type R]

Originally posted by neouser


Hrm....actually, a very bad bad bad idea. Most people would say it's due to the high static CR, but 10.6:1 isn't really much of an issue. You can safely run a little boost on that without problems. The primary concern I would have is with the lightweight components. The reciprocating assembly of the ITR is designed to spin up quickly to stratospheric rpm, but the problem is that they're not designed to withstand massive pressure. Look at it kind of this way. The ITR has high static CR, which gives it great power at TDC and plenty of driving momentum to spin up those lightweight pistons and rods, but that's a short burst of power that doesn't follow the piston down. It's like a bat hitting a ball. The energy from the swung bat hits the ball and the ball carries the energy and continues to travel away from the bat. Now, if you turbo that puppy, you're increasing the cylinder pressure and putting a downward force on those same lightweight pistons and rods all the way down. The energy isn't transferred into the piston and quickly diminished, it's staying right on top of it. That's bound to take it's toll on all the bearings. You could always change out the pistons and rods and lower the static CR, but that defeats the entire purpose of starting with a B18C5. A big part of that 197 hp is from the high static CR and lightweight assembly. You'll probably want to rethink adding boost to that motor. You can definitely do it, but it's just not the ideal motor to do it to...

hmm... ok thanks. But what about supercharger then?
Same problem? If so then how can I increase horsepower/torque without blowing the engine? Would adding a larger exhaust pipe help?

[neouser]

Same thing. Boost is boost, period. Those are just 2 different ways of making it. It's not that you can't do it. It's just not a good idea, in my opinion. It will definitely work, and you'll definitely make much more power, but the components just may not be up to the job for a long period of time. The B18C1 is really a better candidate. If you do decide to boost it, make sure you tune the a/f and the ignition timing carefully and you'll get much more out of your motor in the longrun...

[Type R]

Bah...
To risky...
Much to risky...
I'll just add a larger exhaust pipe.
I like the one called the hmm...
Fireball?
Can't remember.

[SleeperCivic]

I love my turbo.....It goes wwwwiiiiiissssshhhhhhhh.....That's exactly what they need: a wish.

[Type R]

Yes... I love the sound of Turbo when it kicks in!
WHOOOPSSSSHHH!
But I don't think I will add it on my RSX Type R though.
I'm going to keep it original.
All I'm going to add is a NA Fireball Exhaust made my Zigen I think.