Stars and Stripes FLYING IN IRAN

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

taranaki

As an American I thank you for the kind words I get what you were saying!

Every country has their problems not one country is perfect but I believe we can all learn from one country's mistakes to make our own country better.

Now I am not trying to piss you off or anything but why is it that we have all these illegal Mexicans coming into America? Why aren't the Americans trying to escape to Mexico? Why is the president of Mexico making threats if the Americans don't allow all these illegal aliens to stay?
My last question to you is why do most of your country men and women dislike the Americans so much? Actually it may not be most people but a hand full that make it to the news!

Just for an added bit of info I was born in Eastern Europe and came to America.

If you want you can PM me with your fellings or your ideas I do want to hear them. I am not one sided I do want to know both sides of the story.

Also I see the humor in your sig line!

Thanks

Thanks,I'm well aware of the situation with Mexico.I love to put up comments like that just to see the rednecks go into fits of apoplexy .Oddly enough,although they are unshakeable in their belief that the US is a better place than anywhere else in the world,they can't even make a coherent argument as to why,even when given a basket case country as a comparison.

There is an undertone of distrust for all things American in New Zealand,based on a few historical incidents,but Kiwis are quick to recognise that Americans as individuals are, by and large, nice people to share a few beers with.

The issues...

nuclear-free legislation
We,as a nation, have decided that we do not want nuclear weapons or nuclear-powered warships in out country.We believe it to be our sovereign right to self-determination in these matters,and are encouraged by our media to resent any attempt to coerce us into surrendering this right.Successive American governments have tried to break our resolve on this matter,through the mechanisms of vaguely-promised free trade deals,malicious currency trading,and pressure on our friends and allies to disown us.

It's a fairly simple premise...your nation's Navy is welcome to visit in conventionally-powered vessels,provided you confirm that there is no nuclear material on board.Is it too much to ask of a visitor that they abide by the ways of their hosts?Apparently so.When the legislation making New Zealand nuclear -free was enacted in the late 1980's,the U.S. responded by severing military ties with our nation.Is that any way to treat a staunch ally who has fought alongside Uncle Sam in two world wars,Korea,Vietnam,and a host of United Nations peacekeeping missions?
When intense diplomatic pressure was unsuccessful in getting a waiver to our laws for the benefit of the U.S. government,attempts were made to destabilize our [left-wing] government by economic sabotage,trade barriers,and malicious currency training.Now,I'm certain that no individual American would stoop to such measures against an old friend,but the American government of the day was terrified that this new piece of anti-nuclear legislation would become internationally popular,and weaken the strategic access rights of America's Navy in several key ports.Despite repeated dangling of free-trade carrots,the anti-nuclear policy remains so popular with New Zealand voters that even the worst of right-wing governments has not been brave enough to sell out to Uncle Sam.

sportsmanship

The other major factor in anti-American prejudice among New Zealanders is far less important.Almost laughable,even.New Zealand is a nation of sailors and sportsmen.Our prowess in international yachting belies the size of our country.in the late 80's,New Zealand was becoming a major player in the Americas Cup series.The New York Yacht Club had held the trophy for over a hundred years,and teams from Australia and New Zealand were making credible challenges to prise the silverware from its seemingly permanent home.To win the cup, it was neccesary to win a series of races against an American yachting syndicate,against a yacht skippered by one Dennis Connor.

Connor represented everything thatwas negative about the U.S.of A.He was loud,obnoxious and a poor sportsman.A damn good yachtsman,but incapable of winning,losing,or even participating with any display of grace or sportsmanship.

In an alcohol fueled podium incident,he turned to the New Zealand skipper and suggested that he was a loser,and should get off the stage.
He was subsequently 'ambushed' by a tv talkshow host making hs primetime debut on New Zealand telivision.Ostensibly invited onto the Holmes show to talk about the regatta,the interview was hijacked by the host,who berated Connor at length about his poor sportsmanship and demanded a public apology.Connor terminated the live interview by walking out of the studio.The boorish behaviour of the host was conveniently overlooked as the press had a field day.People just didn't walk out of an interview on live television,it was the ultimate in rudeness!

As for the yachting,the following years saw a series of grudge matches.On one boat,the American crew skippered by Dirty Dennis.On the other boat,3million New Zealanders with a media-fuelled hatred of Dennis Connor.

It was the Australians who broke the deadlock and snatched the Americas Cup from its long standing home.The cup fell to New Zealand in subsequent regattas,only to be won by a Swiss syndicate further down the track.Aside from the delicious irony of the Swiss participating in ocean racing and beating every nation with a coastline,it was sad to see a sporting trophy reduced to a bauble to be purchased by the club with the most money to spend on its campaign.


Strange how two events so diverse can be used by the media to the same end."America" has had a very bad press in this country for a long time."America" is currently being battered again by the New Zealand media for the actions of one George W Bush.Have we learnt anything as a nation since the bad old days of the anti-nuclear cold war? I hope so.At least a few more people are seeing the evil deeds in Iraq as the work of Bush,rather than as the work of Americans in general.

[Flatrater]

taranaki

It would be a honor to share a beer with you of course you would drink me under the table!

Thanks for answering my questions honestly! Your post was excellent and explained what I asked, thank you for doing so!

Now about the nuclear ships coming into your country I can't blame you for not wanting them there. I can't sit here and say you should aloow these ships into port because I myself wouldn't want a nuclear powerplant in my back yard. I believe that America being the biggest and most powerful country tries to push other countries around to conform to our government's ideas. Our government feels they don't have to explain their decisions to the people that elected them. While I am on the subject of elections we Americans are idiots we don't vote for the person is is best for the job but we vote for the best liar or the one that spends the most money. Our media is slanted they only print what they want and never the whole true story. But I want you to know not all of our government is wrong some people do try but you still need a majority to pass any laws here. The president cannot do anything he wants he still has to explain to the rest of our government be it lies or the truth!

As for the Americas cup I really can care less who wins it should always be the best team. Don't you think the name should be changed to reflect what it really is?

[2strokebloke]

I believe that America being the biggest and most powerful country tries to push other countries around to conform to our government's ideas.

100% true. That's why our country never stops putting embargos on other countries. If we can't force other countries to do what we want done with their country, then they can be by themselves in isolation.
I liked when Russia was still a world power, because they weren't afraid to say things, or make decisions against what the U.S. wanted.
For a country founded on the ideas of liberty and independence, we sure don't let many others have their independence. It's like we became britain!

[syr74]

BTW, the muslim authorities in Iran have condmened US aid within Iran. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by syr74

BTW, the muslim authorities in Iran have condmened US aid within Iran. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

Do you have links to that story?I don't doubt that there are fundamentalist muslims in Iran who object to the presence of any western assistance,but whether or not they are 'authorities' is a matter for speculation.

[DGB454]

[quote=Flatrater]
Our government feels they don't have to explain their decisions to the people that elected them. While I am on the subject of elections we Americans are idiots we don't vote for the person is is best for the job but we vote for the best liar or the one that spends the most money. Our media is slanted they only print what they want and never the whole true story.

QUOTE]

Actually you are speaking about every government on earth. It isn't limited to our government.

As far as Americans being idiots I have to disagree. Only the uninformed vote for the best liars and this also could be said about any country that has elected officials. You have to take the time to look back on the voting history of the politician running. This will give you a good glimps of how he really feels about the issues or whether he is a liar when it comes to making promises he doesn't intend to keep. That's just one tool though.

Media: Again, this isn't limited to the U.S.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by taranaki

Do you have links to that story?I don't doubt that there are fundamentalist muslims in Iran who object to the presence of any western assistance,but whether or not they are 'authorities' is a matter for speculation.

I will find a link for you. And, I can appreciate your skepticism about the origins of those comments.

However, I have studied Islamic history, politics, and culture formally. (I don't like to say that I have "studied Islam", as that gives the impression of a more theological than academic pursuit. And, my pursuit was strictly academic, not religious.) I mention my study of Islam only to verify that I know what I am talking about. And, to demonstrate that I would know the difference between the muslim authority and someone else.

That said, the condemenation came down from the Imams. Definately, the muslim authority within Iran. I didn't mention that they were Imams initially, because many folks would not know what an Imam is, even if they know the name. It is simpler, and generally clearer for them, to simply say muslim authority.

BTW, give me a bit. I didn't intially get that from the net so it may take me a bit to find a link for you. But, I should have no problem finding a story on it somwhere online I am sure.

[syr74]

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/7614810.htm

There you go.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by syr74

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/7614810.htm

There you go.

BTW, just to offer a greater measure of validity for that article. Look at where it came from. It is an Associated Press release.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by syr74

BTW, just to offer a greater measure of validity for that article. Look at where it came from. It is an Associated Press release.

It's interesting to note that none of the major papers of the world have picked up the story,though.A quick Google search of any key phrase in the article only yields a handfyl of journals,some of very dubious neutrality.I can't help wondering if elswhere in the Arabic press there isn't a similar type of story doing the rounds,'U.S. Senators oppposed to American prescence in Iraq'.

Of course,there are going to be fundamentalist s in the Iranian government who oppose the U.S. presence in Iran, but quite clearly commonsense and tolerance have been allowed to prevail on the issue.

The fact that such opinions hold insufficient sway to influence the outcome tends to shoot down the impression that this article tries to convey.The article is deliberately written with an santi-Iranian bias by excluding the balancing information.Which is probably why the mainstream press haven't run with it.

[syr74]

I don't know Taranaki. I would actually say that the mainstream press is simply running what the political leaders in Iran have been saying while avoiding what the religious leaders are saying.

IMO, this is kind of irresponsible as in the Muslim world religious leaders hold a sway not commonly seen elsewhere. Lawyers will quite often ignore civil law in the courtroom when they claim that it violates Shari'a (Islamic religious law). That would leave mouths hanging wide open in any western nation.

I will give the political leadership in Iran this bit of credit. Not too long ago they would have never thought about openly stating a different opinion from an Imam.......never. That much has changed at least.

And, the mainstream press gave this a little airtime. As CNN (where I initially heard it) and Fox (yeah, yeah..I can hear the booing already) both gave it airtime on their new programs. Although, it was token airtime at best.

I disagree on why it only got that token airtime though. I believe it had more to do with an attempt at the percieved "political correctness" the media so loves rather than questioned validity. A statement like this is simply the status qou for the Imams...no surprise to anyone I would think. And, the very fact that it was no surprise may have been a reason it was given so little play as well.

BTW, earlier when you mentioned that it was nice to see actual human aid on the ground instead of just token material aid. You unknowingly provided me with the means for a good laugh at the expense of the Imams later on. They argued that financial and material aid in general would have been sufficient....human aid was unwelcome and unwarranted.

[stealthj]

FUCK THE ISLAMIC REGIME, my mom and dad BOTH LOST 2 siblings EACH tto that SHIT

and IRAN has accepted aid from any country except for israel (wonder why...)

and rest in peace to all that passed away during the earthquake, i lost 2 family members that day.


when somethin like this happens, politics just need to be set aside

[bm2boats]

I remember the Nuclear Accident in Russia. The USA did send Help over to Russia.