American Muscle Shoot Out

[Jimster]

Originally Posted by Redlined_V8

I just wanted to add one more thing..........good to see someone puttin out another american car post, especially w/ these cars. Our american cars are out running, and out handleing more and more of these european cars, Porsche, Ferrari, Jag, Mercedes, thats pretty impresive for our group of cars here, hell yeah. Dont see any jap cars out there runnin w/ the big boys, too busy pilin up money on their wittle wind-up engines.

Sure they are big boy, sure they are


When a muscle car runs 8.55 second 1/4's on street tyres, then I'll be impressed. And to say that American cars outhandle anything without driving both cars is ignorant, you can't measure handling, I have yet to encounter anything in America that handles better than a Boxster, yet alone a 911 GT3 or Ferrari 360 Modena, maybe the Ford GT or new Viper can hold that torch, only the time that I drive either one, will tell. But in the case of the GT, it seems as a race car, it fails to be as impressive as a base 360 Modena, by those who have driven it, aka the lucky few.

I like the GT and Viper A LOT, but I'm also trying to be realistic here

[Mr Payne]

Originally Posted by Jimster

When a muscle car runs 8.55 second 1/4's on street tyres, then I'll be impressed.

Hard to impress, I guess. Hmmm, is it even possible for a rwd vehicle with street tires to get that time? In fact, how many 8 second rwd cars are actually driven on the street. I'm guessing a very low, low number.

[Kurtdg19]

Originally Posted by Mr Payne

Hard to impress, I guess. Hmmm, is it even possible for a rwd vehicle with street tires to get that time? In fact, how many 8 second rwd cars are actually driven on the street. I'm guessing a very low, low number.

That would be tough indeed to get a 8.55 sec quarter on street tires. Maybe a AWD car could hook a sub 9 second quarter on street tires. I would guess that a heavily modded skyline may be able to pull that (considering the insane hp that engine can handle), but other than that...thats a feat for any rwd car, american or not.

By the way are we talking about some good DOTs, or standard street tires? And what car did run this damn nice time on street tires?

[Mr Payne]

Now that I think about it. It seems very possible. Stroked/Bored, Blown, and a large shot of n2o(300+) on a big block(600+ cubes). You'd probably be making 1800hp+ and you'd need the fattest set of ET streets imaginable......but sure, it'd be possible.

[syr74]

I think from the comparissons they have pretty much stated that the GT is a far more compelling vehicle than the Modena. I will back this up with the statement made early in the comparo between the GT3 and Ferrari Stradale that it "Wasn't even close". Not a difficult statement to understand.

With the Ford GT getting a significant hp increase in the very near future I only expect the ultimiate Ford to get even more "perfect". The fact that I could also pick up a Navigator for the price differential between the GT and the Stradale only makes the Ford that much more attractive.

While the Viper and GT were as close as you get down the 1/4 in their comparo, and the Viper even stopped in a shorter distance, I don't think a road course comparisson would be kind to the Dodge.

Also, read the tester's own words where they mention that the braking test was somewhat "loaded" as the Viper's braking was tested on a stickier surface. However, with the startling performance the Viper offered up I would only hope that the GT's braking could equal it, not surpass it.

Again, around a road course, I doubt the Viper would stand too much of a chance against the GT as if I understand correctly the Stradale is generally considered faster around a road course than the Viper. And, the GT is significantly faster than the Stradale.

Yes, the Viper Competition Coupe will be coming soon. But, so will the stouter Ford GT with more hp than the current model. So, one can only expect that things are only going to get more interesting.

However, I wonder how long these new age hp wars can go on without the insurance companies or the EPA doing what they did in the early seventies? Not too long I would guess.

[Neutrino]

What turns me off about ford is their whole bs marketing about the GT....

fisrt of all...they won some races many years ago against ferrari...so what....ferrari has been a name in races more respected than anyone else...they have dominated in so many races so many years including their recent F1 domination...but to hear ford put it those Le Mans wins are the only races that counted in history

if ford is so much superior why don't they just crush Ferrari in F1...they are present as jaguar.....

and well not duh it was able to beat the modena its a platform 4 years newer than the modena and it has 75 more horses and 215 lbs torque and that race had 3 straight aways...well of course it won

btw did anyone read the course chart...the ferrari was the fastest in turns...so it still dominates there...again impresive for a 4 year old platform


so don't get me wrong...the GT is a very good car...but what turns me off from it its fords marketing not the car itself.....if i hear them self congratulating themselves one more time i'm gonna puke

[Kurtdg19]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

and well not duh it was able to beat the modena its a platform 4 years newer than the modena and it has 75 more horses and 215 lbs torque and that race had 3 straight aways...well of course it won

A newer platform doesn't necessarily mean its a superior car. So are you saying its unfair simply because the Modena is older and this track consisted of a few straights?

Originally Posted by Neutrino

btw did anyone read the course chart...the ferrari was the fastest in turns...so it still dominates there...again impresive for a 4 year old platform

What? I have the course chart in front of me and I don't know where your getting that the Modena is fastest in the turns. The only place the ferrari was fastest was after turn 2, and the 8/9 S transition. The GT3 pulled the best grip (1.33g) on the slightly cambered turn 7, and the Ford was pretty much equal or faster everywhere else. Out of these three cars the Ferrari finished LAST, even being beat by the heavier and less powerful GT3.
And if you read further into it they will say that the Ford's corner-exit speeds were almost always higher than the others. The Ferarri didn't dominate anything in this matchup.

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by Kurtdg19

A newer platform doesn't necessarily mean its a superior car. So are you saying its unfair simply because the Modena is older and this track consisted of a few straights?



What? I have the course chart in front of me and I don't know where your getting that the Modena is fastest in the turns. The only place the ferrari was fastest was after turn 2, and the 8/9 S transition. The GT3 pulled the best grip (1.33g) on the slightly cambered turn 7, and the Ford was pretty much equal or faster everywhere else. Out of these three cars the Ferrari finished LAST, even being beat by the heavier and less powerful GT3.
And if you read further into it they will say that the Ford's corner-exit speeds were almost always higher than the others. The Ferarri didn't dominate anything in this matchup.

i'm not saing its unfair...i'm saing that was nothing unexpected...its normal for a newer car with a way biger and engine and a supercharger to beat the modena...i'm just saing that ford need to get off the pedestal they put themslves and stop kissing their own asses...they act like they can destroy Ferrari on a whim...when all they acheived was to beat ferrari's lowest oldest car in the lineup

if you want supremacy over ferrari go after the in F1 or go after their flagship car

and about the straights...this was obviously a high speed course giving the gt further advantage...i'm not saing it would be different on a low speed course since i don't have any proof...i was just making a comment

about the straights look again...turn 2 ferrari fastest, transition 8 again ferrari was fastest turn 1 and 10 gt and modena were equal

the only advantage the gt had was on the straights and at turn exits due to its massive power advantage

so again i'm not atatcking the gt...its obviosly a very fast car...my complaint is with ford.....they need to stop their attitude...its very anoying

oh there is one other thing about this test...it was not done by profesinal drivers....they need to learn fom motor trend and get top level drivers like Justin Bell

[OoNismoO]

also, skidpad numbers, and measuring handling does show a lot of the cars ability, but not all of it. the gt corners good, its got the power band to pull out of corners, and its got the advantange on the straights, with advantages like this, it shouldnt be a suprise for it to come out on top. does anyone have the official curb weight for the gt40?

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by OoNismoO

does anyone have the official curb weight for the gt40?

3429 lbs

but anyway but to the original topic....i pick the viper

big bore NA engine with a super flat torque curve....IMO that is the closest to what american muscle should be

[syr74]

Neutrino, my only problem with your advice that Ford go after Ferrari's flagship car is you mean for Ford to either go after the Maranello, which the Stradale is a whole lot faster than, or the nearly one-million dollar Enzo.

Do I believe the Enzo would beat the GT? Yes. Do I believe it would be by an enormous amount? No. Do I believe it would justify a 700,000 dollar price difference between the two cars? Are you kidding?

IMO this was the kindest comparo in respect to Ferrari, that could be done between a road going Ferrari and the new GT. Frankly, when the GT gets the horsepower boost that Ford has already said is inevitable within the next year or so...... if it is more than about 100 horsepower (which seems likely) then I would love to see the GT take on the Enzo. As the Ford might well take the mighty Ferrari with that kind of horsepower edge. Time will indeed tell.

As for now. If I was Bill Ford and crew I would be congratulating myself silly. As should any car company that can build an automobile as fine as the GT, the GT3, or the Stradale.

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by syr74

As for now. If I was Bill Ford and crew I would be congratulating myself silly. As should any car company that can build an automobile as fine as the GT, the GT3, or the Stradale.

do you see the ferrari claiming in every magazine article covering a ferrari that they can crush any manufacturer just because they have arguably the best super car in existance of the fact that they dominated trougly the number 1 automotive sport? No

Do you see ford claiming they can crush ferrari in every Ford GT magazine article because they won the le mans many years ago? Yes


it might be good marketing....but to me its just shows lack of class


but enough...lets get back to the original topic of this thread...and as stated earlier as american muscle i choose viper...

resons....Big bore
NA
Torque Curve as flat as a carrier deck

[nacho_nissan]

I see everyone talkin bout ford's future..Everyone says they will put 500hp on a mustang GT,and everything will increase crazy,lets see if thats all true..

[chopstick1981]

Im gonna have to cast my vote for the camaro because its LS1 is pretty much the same as a vette's LS6 except for the heads. So with a little work on the top end its running just as fast as a viper for a lot less money than all the others. I believe a "muscle car" can't just be bought factory stock, it has to built in your garage, thats the defintion of a true muscle car.

[Polygon]

Originally Posted by chopstick1981

I believe a "muscle car" can't just be bought factory stock, it has to built in your garage, thats the defintion of a true muscle car.

Nope, that would be a hot rod.