Bad timing? Rough idle?

[scubacat]

Do those plugs have more than one electrode? Those are well known to wreak havoc on this engine. Consider switching to autolite double platinum. Model # APP105. Iridium plugs are a waste on this engine because the polarity is reversed on one bank and they'll wear unevenly. Make sure you don't get "AP105".. Get the DOUBLE PLATINUM ones with platinum on the ground strap as well as the electrode.

The Autolite are identical to OEM motorcraft plugs.

[2002windstar]

Originally Posted by scubacat

Do those plugs have more than one electrode? Those are well known to wreak havoc on this engine. Consider switching to autolite double platinum. Model # APP105. Iridium plugs are a waste on this engine because the polarity is reversed on one bank and they'll wear unevenly. Make sure you don't get "AP105".. Get the DOUBLE PLATINUM ones with platinum on the ground strap as well as the electrode.

The Autolite are identical to OEM motorcraft plugs.

Yeah, they actually have 4, they looked like a good idea at the time

I'll take a picture of them and post when I replace them - I ordered prior to your post and ordered Bosch Super Plus, copper resistor - I know these have a shorter life span than Plats but in all honesty I don't see me keeping this van for more than a couple of years at the most. 167K mile, if I get another 30-40K out of it I will be happy.

Thanks for the input.

[TheBackyardDIYer]

I actually just replaced the plugs and wires on my van while I was doing the lower intake manifold gasket. I had a few plugs with the ashing your are talking about as well. I replaced them with the same plugs scubacat mentioned--the Autolite Double Platinum. The van runs much smoother, but I can't say that it was directly related to the spark plugs. I did the isolator bolt fix, changed the DPFE from the metal one to the newer style plastic one, changed the lower intake manifold gaskets, PCV valve, blah blah blah...

Anyway, I know that wiswind in the "General Windstar Information" sticky thread recommends that you get the "double platinum" as that is what our vans require:
"The correct replacement spark plug is a double platinum plug......with platinum enhancement on BOTH the center electrode and the Ground tab.
This is because the windstar's ignition system uses a Positive spark on one side of the engine and a Negative spark on the other side. This causes the center electrode to wear faster on one side of the engine, and the ground electrode to wear faster on the other."

I know you've already ordered some, but it may be worth it to try and get the double platinum instead.

OH...and make sure to check the gap size...the guy at AutoZone told me they were pre-gapped, but they weren't the right gap width

[2002windstar]

Plugs arrived today, going to install them, put the ignition coil back in and get ready for the wires which should be here Monday.

I will probably get a set of the recommended double platinum's in the near future.

Here is a question regarding torque specs - the Haynes manual call for specs in the 84-132 in-lbs range. The spec on the box for the plugs is 180 in-lbs. I am thinking of splitting the difference at putting them in at 156 in-lbs. Or should I follow the Haynes and not go above the max of 132 in-lbs so I don't risk the possibility of stripping the head? Thoughts guys?

TIA.

[12Ounce]

I personally like approx. 100 in lbs. Easy to find on my torque wrench.
.
Its the guys who misread the "in lbs" to be "ft lbs" that strip the holes. Even Clik and Clak once recommended 85 ft lbs for spark plugs (I quit listening right then except for the jokes.)... couldn't believe my ears.
.
But the plug bodies can be damaged at much lower torques ... that's why I make sure to never overtorque.

[2002windstar]

Thx for the reply 12Ounce - going to remove the old and install the new ones.

[2002windstar]

Gapped the new plugs to 0.054 put a little anti-seize on the threads and installed to 110 in-lbs. Took the old ones out, kept them in order and took these picks.

When I pulled the 1st one earlier this week, cylinder #6 it looked extactly like cylinder #2 with the ash build up. I cleaned it a little with a wire brush and replaced it. Then I pulled cylinder #5 on it had heavy carbon on it, then pulled #4. With 3 different looking plugs on one bank it is then I decided to replace then and the wires.

Looking at all six it seems to me that #5 is not firing or firing out of order, as much as I would like to think that I did not mix the front bank wires up (5&6) I may have.

Any way, with the new wires I will make sure that they absolutely are correctly attached to the coil .

Here are the plugs

In order 1-6/left to right


Plugs 1 &2


3&4


5&6


Opinions?

[wiswind]

Let's see how you do without those multiprong plugs.
One thing is for sure.....they needed replacement.

[2002windstar]

Originally Posted by wiswind

Let's see how you do without those multiprong plugs.
One thing is for sure.....they needed replacement.

I typically don't fall for marketing hype and am usually skeptical so I am not sure why I fell for the hype behind the Bosch Fusion - what a waste of $$. I do know that when I pulled the original plugs to replace them with the Fusion at 100K miles none looked as bad as these.

Lesson learned.

[wiswind]

Those displays at the auto part stores really are tempting....so don't feel bad.
For my 2003 Sienna, I replace my spark plugs......LOTS more work vs my Windstar.
I had to remove the upper intake manifold to get the back plugs......1 or 2 of the 3 required that because I have "coil on plug" so I needed the clearance.
In short......I don't want to do this every 30K miles or so.......every 100K or so....I can live with.
I did a LOT of reading.......and there is a smaller electrode plug in the Denso (OE plug) lineup listed for my vehicle.
It is the "IX" power plug.
Looks like an upgrade......more power (like I'm really going to notice it).
I had to really search on the DENSO website....but there it was.......rated "up to 30K miles" vs "up to 120K miles" for the plug my vehicle came with.
So easy to fall into these pitfalls.....as the auto part stores (and websites) list so many plugs for our vehicles that are so different from each other.
It makes me very frustrated because it makes it so difficult to get the right part.....one that is even near correct for the application.

As a side note, my Sienna also has the platinum on the ground tab......but has iridium in the center electrode.

My point to this rant.......this problem is not limited to just 1 vehicle or brand and the person behind the counter is not going to know, they only have what comes up on their computer screen to go by.

[scubacat]

Originally Posted by wiswind

Those displays at the auto part stores really are tempting....so don't feel bad.
For my 2003 Sienna, I replace my spark plugs......LOTS more work vs my Windstar.
I had to remove the upper intake manifold to get the back plugs......1 or 2 of the 3 required that because I have "coil on plug" so I needed the clearance.
In short......I don't want to do this every 30K miles or so.......every 100K or so....I can live with.
I did a LOT of reading.......and there is a smaller electrode plug in the Denso (OE plug) lineup listed for my vehicle.
It is the "IX" power plug.
Looks like an upgrade......more power (like I'm really going to notice it).
I had to really search on the DENSO website....but there it was.......rated "up to 30K miles" vs "up to 120K miles" for the plug my vehicle came with.

I just did the same job on my 02 camry v6 (same engine basically), and yes, removing the upper intake plenum wasn't too fun (warning: that back valve cover gasket is a REALLY horrendous job.) The previous plugs were the NGK "performance" plugs with the smaller electrode, and after about 50K miles they were completely worn out. I used the same Denso "long life" iridium plugs you used mainly due to the labor involved in replacement, and it feels like I installed a turbo charger or something due to being back to OEM spec. I guess "performance" meant LOWER performance ultimately.

For any modern vehicle, always find out what the manufacturer specs are and stick to that. Anything besides that and you'll almost certainly take a performance and/or longevity hit. With the Windstar, I really would urge using the autolite double platinums, just to stay with OEM equipment. As long as you got ones with the single ground strap you'll probably be ok, though. (Only driving for another year or 2? We'll see about that!!)

[scubacat]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

I personally like approx. 100 in lbs. Easy to find on my torque wrench.
.
Its the guys who misread the "in lbs" to be "ft lbs" that strip the holes. Even Clik and Clak once recommended 85 ft lbs for spark plugs (I quit listening right then except for the jokes.)... couldn't believe my ears.
.
But the plug bodies can be damaged at much lower torques ... that's why I make sure to never overtorque.

I turn until I feel resistance and then add 1/4 turn. That's pretty much industry standard. (And getting a torque wrench in the back there would be tricky.)

[TheBackyardDIYer]

Originally Posted by scubacat

I turn until I feel resistance and then add 1/4 turn.

Sounds about right...

[12Ounce]

About plug fouling in a situation that uses a coil pack, such as 99 3.8....
.
After plug service, its beneficial to go around the idling engine using a spark detector, such as a clamp-on inductive type ignition light, to check each/all cables for spark current. This helps prove/indicate that each plug is indeed firing ... and that there is no internal ground fault in the coil pack or along the cables. (Hurrah! For coil on plug evolution!)

[scubacat]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

(Hurrah! For coil on plug evolution!)

Yeah, until one of the spark plug tube seals starts leaking on the rear valve cover of a transverse mount V6 in a mid size car. Then you get to spend an entire day and then some taking stuff apart to replace that stupid little thing. (I splurged on the OEM gaskets part due to the labor involved.)