GTspirit visits McLaren Special Operations

[BMW.WilliamsF1Team]

Originally Posted by hurstg01

LM at £10m is a steal IMO

Wouldn't call it a "steal" at all. You can get an actual LeMans-run GTR for less than that rather than the LM, which is made to commemorate those very cars...with the same driving experience and looks. And on top of that have extra to invest to net more return than an LM will appreciate at. Sounds like people with more money than they care to keep track of will spend what it takes to get something they want.

Unfortunately these cars are going the way of art. Will be stashed away in private collections, not on display often, and bought and sold at ridiculous prices keeping them that way for eternity. At least with paintings, some people let them go on loan to museums for others to enjoy. Not so much with cars (usually). Another F1 "lost" imo.

[carbuilder2002]

Must admit where it is going is of more interest to me than what some collector is willing to spend as I doubt it will ever be driven at anywhere near enough to say it was used.

[Peloton25]

Originally Posted by WaZzZuPpP

Is the new owner of 48 in UK?

Skipped over that question - still a Swiss car. New owner took delivery of a Graphite Grey (or similar) McLaren P1 as well.

Originally Posted by WaZzZuPpP

Any idea how trustworthy is this site: http://agent4stars.com/update-2x-mcl...rrari-250-gto/

It has LM sold for 16m$, 043 for 10m, XP4(?) for 10.5m?

I wouldn't doubt those figures too much. Stefan who runs that site seems to have good connections in the space.

Originally Posted by BMW.WilliamsF1Team

Wouldn't call it a "steal" at all. You can get an actual LeMans-run GTR for less than that rather than the LM, which is made to commemorate those very cars...with the same driving experience and looks.

There is at least one F1 owner who wholeheartedly agrees with this position. The benefits could be seen as one extra seat, air conditioning, and not needing to alter the car for road use as that's what the LM was designed for. It is an odd thing though, but I think the LM is considered such a 'unicorn' in the automotive world that any price we have mentioned here would be justified. Keep in mind there are really only two of the six LMs in private hands today and the opportunity to own one is a very rare occurrence, as we well know.

>8^)
ER

[cabrio92]

Originally Posted by hurstg01

Also, 2 more facts spring to the forefront of my mind...

#075 being resprayed
6 x F1's in MSO - must be in preparation for the 2014 Tour

Also, its good to see Pani getting his hands dirty

I suspect they speak about #046, it seems logical.

6 F1 ?
LM2
046
048
075
?
?

[hurstg01]

Originally Posted by Peloton25

Keep in mind there are really only two of the six LMs in private hands today and the opportunity to own one is a very rare occurrence, as we well know.

>8^)
ER

This was the background to my point of £10m for an LM being a steal. The fact that they are so prized, seen as the pinnacle of the F1 roadcar, with the history of the Le Mans GTR's behind it and so rare are surely drivers for immense £'s - If you want one, then try finding one; find one then try to convince the seller to sell it.... The current owners aren't short of a few £'s themselves but surely appreciate the car for what it is and know how much the cars value has increased over time.

[Sami Aaltonen]

Originally Posted by hurstg01

This was the background to my point of £10m for an LM being a steal. The fact that they are so prized, seen as the pinnacle of the F1 roadcar, with the history of the Le Mans GTR's behind it and so rare are surely drivers for immense £'s - If you want one, then try finding one; find one then try to convince the seller to sell it.... The current owners aren't short of a few £'s themselves but surely appreciate the car for what it is and know how much the cars value has increased over time.

I think LM and Le Mans completed GTR's you can ask what ever you want. If someone wants one; he probably has afford to pay what ever the seller wants for it. Just like 250GTO's and so on, the price is what it is. 250GTO around 30-40 million £ is perhaps quite much right if you are selling well known example. LM is the same thing, only 5 made, 2 on the market perhaps. I think you can ask what ever you want today.

I just hope the LM2 will be on the roads or if not in the roads, the new owner could bring the car on the shows, what you have there in UK quite many during the summer. I assume that the car's new location will be UK.....

But it's still quite interesting that Le Mans completed GTR around 5 or perhaps close to 8 Million £ or $ what ever. The LM even there is a Le Mans historic debyt behind it, it's many times more valuable than any GTR.
I don't know which could be more distracting; to see LM on the roads or see example #07R on the roads when you know it was 5th in 1995 Le Mans and were driven all 1995 BPR GT season. Or perhaps #06R which has 2 Le Mans behind it; wears mixed up Le Mans livery even today and has 2 BPR GT seasons behind it and some races in 1997 FIA GT1.

I probably.... if I had to choose, as much I love the LM's style, desing, evertything in it; it's the ultimate road car to me; I would take; If money doesn't matter; I would choose short tail GTR.
Not many times see Le Mans completed cars in the roads, road registered.

BUT these things are matters of opinion; I love LM I love GTR's.
And I'm actually happy that LM is worth today what it is, it deserves it. One of the most unique history of sports cars. Without those 5 finished GTR's in 1995 Le Mans, there would not be LM. And that's why it deserves todays respect.

(I don't know was this too confusing post but I just love these.... )

[countachal]

So is LM2 the ex Japanese car that used to live with a GT?

[carbuilder2002]

It all hangs on what the purchaser wants, a road car that is the rarest of it's kind or the raw ex racing machine experience. Yes the extra seat and more usable set up has a certain advantage but my guess it was bought because it is so rare. In this case a GTR is probably more usable as you know it has been driven to within an inch of its life before you get it.

[dbsf1]

Originally Posted by countachal

So is LM2 the ex Japanese car that used to live with a GT?

And does this mean we could see 58F1GT out and about a bit more somewhere?

Maybe someone in New Zealand might buy it?

[BMW.WilliamsF1Team]

I understand the rarity of the LM and the infrequency of them trading hands affecting the prices. I just think it's ridiculous that the actual sale would go up to the $15-20mm figure when you step back and see what it compares to other F1s and what the LM even represents. At that price, LM2 will never see the road just like it was in Japan. Garage queen/trailer queen/special events only/investment item or whatever label other than "car" you want to give it now. It's no longer a car even though it has road features that won't be used.

At least I sleep well knowing the most expensive F1 is neither an LM nor other road car variant, but rather 01R. As it should be. I don't want to guess what value it is, but at a minimum an LM price + $1 symbolic to make people know a GTR with history should always be worth more than a road counterpart (with road features that will never be used as it will never see the road) that hasn't accomplished a single thing in its life other than being stared at in a garage with essentially 0 miles.

The only time 01R will ever be given a legitimate value by McLaren is when they decide to sell the company to someone else and all the cars are part of the purchase. That's the only way those F1s will "trade hands" albeit they'd likely and hopefully stay physically where they are in case that ever happens.

Originally Posted by dbsf1

And does this mean we could see 58F1GT out and about a bit more somewhere?

Maybe someone in New Zealand might buy it?

There's someone on another forum that claims to work for an insurance company and is adamant that car is now home in the UK. He stated the car for sure is not a longtail GTR or the prototype in McLaren's hands. I've never seen pics of it outside Japan...take that for what it's worth.

I'll take a GTR even with a DNF-only history at the 24 Hours over an LM any day. The extra money saved can buy another GTR! I'm not even going to tell Erik what livery I want the GTR to be.

[Sami Aaltonen]

Originally Posted by countachal

So is LM2 the ex Japanese car that used to live with a GT?

Yep, the same LM. Don't know where 58GT is...

[Sami Aaltonen]

Originally Posted by BMW.WilliamsF1Team

I understand the rarity of the LM and the infrequency of them trading hands affecting the prices. I just think it's ridiculous that the actual sale would go up to the $15-20mm figure when you step back and see what it compares to other F1s and what the LM even represents. At that price, LM2 will never see the road just like it was in Japan. Garage queen/trailer queen/special events only/investment item or whatever label other than "car" you want to give it now. It's no longer a car even though it has road features that won't be used.

At least I sleep well knowing the most expensive F1 is neither an LM nor other road car variant, but rather 01R. As it should be. I don't want to guess what value it is, but at a minimum an LM price + $1 symbolic to make people know a GTR with history should always be worth more than a road counterpart (with road features that will never be used as it will never see the road) that hasn't accomplished a single thing in its life other than being stared at in a garage with essentially 0 miles.

The only time 01R will ever be given a legitimate value by McLaren is when they decide to sell the company to someone else and all the cars are part of the purchase. That's the only way those F1s will "trade hands" albeit they'd likely and hopefully stay physically where they are in case that ever happens.

I'll take a GTR even with a DNF-only history at the 24 Hours over an LM any day. The extra money saved can buy another GTR! I'm not even going to tell Erik what livery I want the GTR to be.

Let' see where LM2 is heading for, I have a strong feeling it will be stayed in UK after the full maintaince.
You are right about #01R. The most valuable F1 ever.
Of course you would take I think GULF livery...

[samzbob]

Originally Posted by Peloton25

It is an odd thing though, but I think the LM is considered such a 'unicorn' in the automotive world that any price we have mentioned here would be justified. Keep in mind there are really only two of the six LMs in private hands today and the opportunity to own one is a very rare occurrence, as we well know.

How very true. As much fun as it would be to "buy history", it is much more difficult to buy something that there isnt much access too. Hence why the prices are high. It is much easier to pick up a GTR, LeMans finisher or not than it is an LM, so the LM will always command higher prices.

Now interesting food for thought is, if Brunei ever got rid of their 3 LMs (unlikely) how much would that drive prices down?

Another interesting thought (going way off topic here) is how the values would differ between the orange LMs and the black ones. Or if the black LMs were changed to orange if that would affect value on the count of "history" and "originality"

Back on topic, I am hoping LM2 will be used for what it is intended, given the overhaul it is going through! Wonder if there is any knowledge on the mileage on it?

[BMW.WilliamsF1Team]

Originally Posted by Sami Aaltonen

Let' see where LM2 is heading for, I have a strong feeling it will be stayed in UK after the full maintaince.
You are right about #01R. The most valuable F1 ever.
Of course you would take I think GULF livery...

I do love the Gulf longtail liveries (the baby blue) and easily my #2 favorite. Not particularly fond of the shorttail dark blue Gulf colors.

Erik correctly called me crazy when I told him how much I love the Fina livery here.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...&postcount=381

If I had enough money to drop $20 million, I'd want it all black (not black/gray let alone papaya) to pay tribute to 01R (I know 01R is two-tone)....which is no doubt my favorite GTR. Of course the Sultan has that weird gray/black/graphics thing going on on two of his LMs. Would look much better in pure black with the orange interior to contrast.

[PatrickT82]

I would have loved to be there as well. The blue and orange F1's are amazing!

When and where is the 2014 tour!? (I guess I missed something)