BMW really trying to appeal to everyone?

[Banzai]

I agree.

"Less refined"? I though Lexus cars are the most refined cars in the world, seeing that their silky smooth V-8's are the quietest and most flexible on the market.

Having said that, Honda is suffering in Europe because they do not have a seprate badge to differentiate from their upmarket cars to their normal cars. Sure, Honda had the Type-R badge, but they were very rare and sold only in discreet numbers or privately.

Toyota, Nissan and Honda created differante brands to bridge a gap between their upmarket and normal cars. Although Lexus may be seen as a bland marque because of its Toyota roots, at least the badge generates strong appeal simply because it isn't seen as a Toy-oda.

Honda has the Mugen in Japan and Acura in America and has nothing in Europe. I suspect Honda doesn't see the European market as important as the Japanese and American market and that's why Honda isn't pampering Europeans with luxuries like the Acura and Mugen which generate strong appeal. In Europe, everything from the Logo to the NSX is just a Honda. That's why Europeans are more favourable towards Lexus' than the Nissan Maxima or Honda Legend because they are badge prejudice. People respect Lexus for their engineering excellence, technological superiority and unrivalled build quality/reliabilty/refinement. Honda is a mass manufacturer and as a result, the NSX is seen as a "mass coupe" even though it costs a dear $90000. That's why the Japanese created luxury marques. Its all about profit and market share.

BMW has a sports-luxury image. It is not seen as a maker of utes. And I agree that they must create another brand to differentiate between their luxury models and others.

[328isRob]

Originally posted by Banzai
I agree.

"Less refined"? I though Lexus cars are the most refined cars in the world, seeing that their silky smooth V-8's are the quietest and most flexible on the market.

Having said that, Honda is suffering in Europe because they do not have a seprate badge to differentiate from their upmarket cars to their normal cars. Sure, Honda had the Type-R badge, but they were very rare and sold only in discreet numbers or privately.

Toyota, Nissan and Honda created differante brands to bridge a gap between their upmarket and normal cars. Although Lexus may be seen as a bland marque because of its Toyota roots, at least the badge generates strong appeal simply because it isn't seen as a Toy-oda.

Honda has the Mugen in Japan and Acura in America and has nothing in Europe. I suspect Honda doesn't see the European market as important as the Japanese and American market and that's why Honda isn't pampering Europeans with luxuries like the Acura and Mugen which generate strong appeal. In Europe, everything from the Logo to the NSX is just a Honda. That's why Europeans are more favourable towards Lexus' than the Nissan Maxima or Honda Legend because they are badge prejudice. People respect Lexus for their engineering excellence, technological superiority and unrivalled build quality/reliabilty/refinement. Honda is a mass manufacturer and as a result, the NSX is seen as a "mass coupe" even though it costs a dear $90000. That's why the Japanese created luxury marques. Its all about profit and market share.

BMW has a sports-luxury image. It is not seen as a maker of utes. And I agree that they must create another brand to differentiate between their luxury models and others.

I'm going to have to disagree with Lexus being the "most refined cars in the world" Personally I think that BMWs and MBs are more refined but even they are no where near the "most refined".
Honda does have a seperate badge to differentiate their upper market cars that badge is called Acura, their Type-R is equal to Ford's SVT, or Toyota's TRD. Do you mean to say that you can't buy a Acura anywhere other than America?

[EdgarFan659]

Originally posted by worthlessbmw
www.WorthlessBMW.com

Plugging your website has little to do with this thread topic.

[Banzai]

Acura is not supposed to exist other than in the North American market. It isn't even marketed in Japan. But I have seen an Acura dealership operating in Hong Kong.

When I said Lexus is the most refined, I meant that Lexus upgrades their vehicles more than BMW or Merc or any other luxury marque does. For example, the IS430 is a concept that's earmarked for production. If it's produced, it will be the most upgraded Lexus and will do a 0-60mph sprint in 4.4 sec and as a result, will directly target M-series and AMG.

The Type-R badge is used to simply indicate that it is the range and performance topping car of that Honda model. For example, the Integra Type R is more respected than the base model because of its performance talents. I have never heard of the SVT or TRD, so I can't comment on those.

BMW has the M-series not only to take on AMG, but to bring BMW to an even higher level of respect. Everywhere I go, whenever M3 or M5 is mentioned, people pay attention and would generally nod in approval of the name. Why? Because of its performance image.

That's why BMW has to create a different badge for its utes. Its simply not good enough for BMW to ruin its luxury sport image when many things are at stake now. If BMW doesn't, then a few years later, utes will start appearing in people's minds when BMW or M-series is mentioned. And believe me, utes are no sport-luxury-performance vehicles. They're there to do arduous labour.

[328isRob]

Originally posted by Banzai
...will do a 0-60mph sprint in 4.4 sec and as a result, will directly target M-series and AMG...

That would be nice to see and would definately up the stakes for Motorsport and AMG.

[Banzai]

These following are the pictures of the Lexus IS430. As if BMW didn't have enough problems already!

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/atta...&postid=147435
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/atta...&postid=147437
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/atta...&postid=147441
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/atta...&postid=147442

The following are the Specs.
Coming out in 2002 as a 2003 model in the Lexus lineup: IS430
Engine: Supercharged 32-Valves DOHC 4.3Liter V8
Power: 396bhp
Drivetrain: Rear Wheel Drive
Transmission: 6-Speed
Acceleration: 0 - 60MPH at 4.5sec
M.S.R.P.: $40,000+[b]

All these are the courtesy of "lenkun" from automobileforums.com

[gang$tarr]

whoa! That's a beast! almost 400hp!! unbelievable

i think they should change the name though, like not keep the IS... since it supposed to be a superior sportier car than an IS. LIke ///M and AMG, they should use TRD...... make it like a TRD430

but i don't understand why they don't make 2 door coupe ISs??

[Technodrome]

Banzai, Man you are pain in the ass.....That Lexus (Toyota deluxe) will never be able to reach BMWs market!!!!!!

You said that Lexus is the most refined car!!! Where that came from??????

BMW styling and performance is much better from Lexus I don't see your point in all this...

I had an opportunity to drive New Lexus 400 and it feels like you are driving Toyota Camry. I did not like it at all…Could be just me, I don’t know….

You have been so negative about BMW and seems to me that you probably never even drive one!!!!!

Get a life man and stop Dreaming!!!!!!

[jinushaun]

Originally posted by gang$tarr
but i don't understand why they don't make 2 door coupe ISs??

I don't understand why they don't have an E46 M3 saloon! Anywayz, I've never been too thrilled by the IS styling, but this is a very nice car if you consider the specs.

[Banzai]

Dear Criticiser;

If you must know, I fully respect BMW for its design and engineering integrity. What I don't appreciate is people telling me that I doing things which I'm not. And I'm certainly not being totally negative about Beemer. In fact, I love 'em (the current range, of course).

Anyway, I only posted the IS430 because I though other BMW fans like me are interested to know what rivals exist. BMW isn't the only maker of 300bhp+ Sports Compact sedans you know. I welcome all competition, as it will only force BMW to make their cars better. If you want BMW to be the only manufacturer in existence, fine. That's your opinion.

P.S: The only negative thing I've said about BMW was about their concept cars. And I don't always dream about cars you know.

Your's truly,
a real car lover who doesn't love just a BMW.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that's out of the road, I've dug up another competitor.

The Alfa Romeo 156 GTA has a 3.2 litre V-6 with 325 bhp. That's all I know about it, but the fight's going to be more interesting An estimated 0-60mph sprint is calculated at 4.9 sec. So it'll be too slow to tackle the M3, but judging from the praise I've seen on the Alfa's handling, this one will not be so easily beaten. It will be crushed by the Beemer, but not so easily.

The Lexus probably will have a box problem. I heard that Toyota had some problems trying to fit a manual in the IS300 because the IS200's six-speeder won't cope with the power-to-weight ratio. And seeing that BMW fitted an entirely new box system into the M3 plus THAT M-powered 3.2 engine, OF COURSE BMW'S going to be the King....I hope.

[Marita]

im sorry but, WTF???:argue:

[Anik311]

All I wanna do is wait and see if that thing sells...at the price they are going to charge who is going to pay that much money?

I mean trucks gotta be rugged...would YOU wanna put dirt and crap in the back of a 50,000-60,000 dollar truck?

SHOOO i wouldnt!

[jinushaun]

Haha, I know you Marita!! (small world) DTM rocks!! :ylsuper Maybe you should start another 1000+ reply topic! Hehe :hehe: :hehehe:

[Marita]

Originally posted by jinushaun
Haha, I know you Marita!! (small world) DTM rocks!! :ylsuper Maybe you should start another 1000+ reply topic! Hehe :hehe: :hehehe:

lol...with all the threads going on here sure why not...lol...