Multiple DTCs, erratic idle and loud pinging

[12Ounce]

The intake manifold on this engine has three major components:
1. The plastic upper, held in place by 14, or so, bolts. (On many early engines, this part had a removable inner piece.)
2. The plastic spacer. This is the piece that receives inlet air from the filter through the throttle body. Held in place by 8 complex screws that have a rubber component/seal. It is these screws that have failed, due to oil exposure, on early engines. This is the screw that changed from black-to-green rubber when it was up-graded.
3. The aluminum lower. (The spacer is mounted to the lower.) The lower is a rather complex piece. Not only does it pass air, and EGR gas, to the cyls; it closes off the top of the block ....and passes coolant to the heads. The swirl control ... or as Ford calls it: the intake-runner-control .... is all part of the lower. The lower is mounted to both heads and the block ... so there are two gaskets for the heads, and two shaped end seals for the block.

Every thing is fairly easy for the DIY ... until you get down to the aluminum lower. I would try to avoid disturbing this part unless absolutely necessary. Then I would not know who to trust to install it properly.... other than myself, and I'm not too sure of him!

[big white bufflo]

code 171-174 are all common code for thr intake gasketand gromit vac leak lean bank look it up on the forum coil packs go bad too i replaced my wifes 120000 pull the coil out look on the bottom you can see the crack if there bad all these are not that hard to do

[olopezm]

Let us know how it turns out. I really hope it's just a cheap fix! You should be able to get the IMRC linkages from junkyards.

Oscar.

[azharj]

Dear All,
In essence if someone buys a ford car, always be afraid of something failing or breaking because of poor material which are not oil or heat resistance, poor design which will generate heat and no space to work. I had been using Japani cars almost never went to workshop for breakage, only for failing some plugs at almost predictable time. My friends have European cars best in strength and designs; almost in 6 six years I have never known anyone, going to workshops except, for change for oil, tires, break pads, etc. I have this white elephant since 4 years to years for workshops with a lot of money. If runs good afraid of some thing failing or breaking period of satisfaction only two or one month

[12Ounce]

I have had my '99 for near 13 years now. Thanks to this forum and my shop manuals, I have been able to repair much that has failed. Now I feel like I can fix anything that goes wrong. This makes it a pretty reliable vehicle for use in North America.

However, even with all this experience and the on-line help .... if I were suddenly shipped out to another country around the globe, the Winny would not be welcomed to go along. If I could not drive a short distance to get the many repair parts it needs, (as I now can) I would not have nearly as much faith in it.

Good luck!

[Dekeman]

Originally Posted by olopezm

Let us know how it turns out. I really hope it's just a cheap fix! You should be able to get the IMRC linkages from junkyards.

Oscar- no luck at local junkyards. Not even in the Rock Auto catalog or on ebay motors.

Originally Posted by big white bufflo

code 171-174 are all common code for thr intake gasketand gromit vac leak lean bank look it up on the forum coil packs go bad too i replaced my wifes 120000 pull the coil out look on the bottom you can see the crack if there bad all these are not that hard to do

Buffalo- The TSB for the isolator bolts and valve cover were done a long time ago according to the dealer service records. I was just idly wondering if the new isolator bolts go bad too, and let oil in and vacuum out.

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

.... if I were suddenly shipped out to another country around the globe, the Winny would not be welcomed to go along. If I could not drive a short distance to get the many repair parts it needs, (as I now can) I would not have nearly as much faith in it.

12 Ounce- you're right- if I were to get orders for overseas again, this vehicle would be sold outright. I probably should have done it long ago in retrospect.

Thanks everyone for all the help and advice. I will see what the shop says in the morning. I really need to keep this thing running because it fits the whole family and my mother-in-law's wheelchair (it's a big van), but I'm seriously considering cutting my losses on this one. I am sick to death of constantly fixing things on my Windstar and am ready to give up. I know many of you feel the same way.

[Windstartled]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

I have had my '99 for near 13 years now. Thanks to this forum and my shop manuals, I have been able to repair much that has failed. Now I feel like I can fix anything that goes wrong. This makes it a pretty reliable vehicle for use in North America.

However, even with all this experience and the on-line help .... if I were suddenly shipped out to another country around the globe, the Winny would not be welcomed to go along. If I could not drive a short distance to get the many repair parts it needs, (as I now can) I would not have nearly as much faith in it.

Good luck!

Spot on, if there was a rating system that applied specifically to 10+ year-old, handy owner-maintained vehicles the Windstar would score near the top, provided owner lives in North America where the high number of units sold makes for a large supply of parts and expertise. This is thanks in no small part to the Ford Essex engine (Windsor version) having been used on so many Ford/Mercury/Lincoln models in North America over the years so there is a wealth of knowledge pertaining to it. If my Winnie was to quit on me I would likely purchase another one because I know it so well, which is my main criteria.

[olopezm]

Originally Posted by Dekeman

Oscar- no luck at local junkyards. Not even in the Rock Auto catalog or on ebay motors.

Too bad; maybe try making one from a coat hanger? How about looking for other Fords with the Essex engine?

Oscar.

[Windstartled]

Originally Posted by azharj

Dear All,
In essence if someone buys a ford car, always be afraid of something failing or breaking because of poor material which are not oil or heat resistance, poor design which will generate heat and no space to work. I had been using Japani cars almost never went to workshop for breakage, only for failing some plugs at almost predictable time. My friends have European cars best in strength and designs; almost in 6 six years I have never known anyone, going to workshops except, for change for oil, tires, break pads, etc. I have this white elephant since 4 years to years for workshops with a lot of money. If runs good afraid of some thing failing or breaking period of satisfaction only two or one month

The Windstar is not a vehicle suited for everyone, especially if you live overseas. Both the van and the engine were manufactured in Canada so parts are hard to find outside North America because the Ford Ford Essex "Windsor" engine, as common as it is here, is not used by Ford models built elsewhere (mainly in Europe) which use smaller, more fuel-efficient engines. Given this situation parts for your van are probably very expensive where you live and not worth your while diving into the cramped engine bay since you are not saving much money. BTW all minivans -with the exception of early ones that used ridiculously underpowered engines- have cramped engine bays, it's due to design requirements to maximize interior space while using relatively powerful engines.

And your local Ford mechanics are probably not familiar with the engine, making them more prone to make mistakes and still charge you a bundle.

[Dekeman]

UPDATE: See below

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

...Every thing is fairly easy for the DIY ... until you get down to the aluminum lower. I would try to avoid disturbing this part unless absolutely necessary. Then I would not know who to trust to install it properly.... other than myself, and I'm not too sure of him!

I've actually got it at a local shop to do the lower intake. In the interim, they took it apart and I went in and saw everything today. The IMRC flaps were closed so long that they had a thick buildup of oil sludge. The upper intake shell was full of oil since the isolator bolts failed (again- the TSB was done at 88k miles and it's now got 172k). It's not PCV blowback either- it was heavily pooled on top of the iso bolts and had contaminated everything.

Originally Posted by olopezm

Let us know how it turns out. I really hope it's just a cheap fix! You should be able to get the IMRC linkages from junkyards.

After calling about 20 used parts yards in a 50-mile radius, I found only one place that said they have an engine with one IMRC actuator linkage rod still attached. I arranged to go into work a bit late and left way early to get there when they opened, found the van, pulled out the linkage rod that I needed, and got it back to the garage where I found out that it's for the wrong side. The mechanic later bent and formed it to fit the opposite side, and both rods are now installed.

I'm so far quite impressed with the place I chose to do the work. They tested and found out that the lower intake needs to be replaced, so I saw the partially cleaned lower intake out of the engine, in which the EGR ports were nearly completely blocked. That iso bolt job done at the dealership 90k miles ago apparently either didn't last this long, or they didn't pay too much attention to detail. When I get the van back tomorrow, it will have a new lower intake gasket, new isolator bolt grommets, clean EGR ports, new gaskets on the upper intake and spacer (and I guess the throttle body too), new injector o-rings, a B&G fuel flush service, and a coolant flush with a B&G service (suspended hardener for radiator pinholes and a 'water wetter').

It will also get another oil change with a new filter since there is apparently a TSB on Motorcraft oil filters for this vehicle. Anyone know about this one?

Originally Posted by Windstartled

... If my Winnie was to quit on me I would likely purchase another one because I know it so well, which is my main criteria.

Precisely the reason I bought another one two years ago when my first one was wrecked.

[12Ounce]

Originally Posted by Dekeman

..... The upper intake shell was full of oil since the isolator bolts failed .......

Its not a big deal, but you have "cause and effect" reversed.

Oil pooling on top of the intake spacer is quite normal for this engine. It is oil that came out of the crankcase via the PCV system. In most engines this oil will harmlessly find its way into the combustion chambers and will be burned, actually aiding upper cylinder lubrication in the process. In our 3.8's however, the oil does two things bad ...(1) It drips, thru poor fitting seams, from the spacer down onto the EGR jets, where it meets hot exhaust gas and forms clogging build-up .... and (2) it pools against the rubber of the isolator bolts and tends to soften the rubber, especially the early design isolator bolts.

All engines with a PCV system will have some crankcase oil injected into the inlet air stream. As the engine wears, depending on the maintenance program, this stream of oil will increase with increasing piston blow-by.

[Dekeman]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

Its not a big deal, but you have "cause and effect" reversed.

Oil pooling on top of the intake spacer is quite normal for this engine. It is oil that came out of the crankcase via the PCV system. In most engines this oil will harmlessly find its way into the combustion chambers and will be burned, actually aiding upper cylinder lubrication in the process.

Thanks 12 ounce. I've seen both a normal amount of oil in the intake, and a ridiculous amount from when I did my first isolator bolt job. The amount of oil that collected in the upper intake looked exactly like the ridiculous amount that was there when I cracked open the intake to do the isolator bolts in my old van. The mechanic was trained by Ford so had done plenty of that Windstar 3.8 TSB and was also convinced that the replacement isolator bolt seals somehow went bad. The existing ones in the van were green, and he insisted that the replacement grommets were supposed to be blue (and showed me one for good measure). Does anyone know if the bad ones were green? I cannot remember for the life of me. I have to wonder if the dealer paperwork was a lie, and they never did the replacement. Those EGR ports were completely plugged with carbon as well (and has since been cleaned out).

So anyway, my van is back and after changing the coil, plugs and wires, it runs terrifically now. So much better that I may actually keep the van. I did the rear plugs and wires last time when I had the upper intake shell off for the iso bolt job, so this time it was quite a pain in the neck (and arms and shoulders). What a colossal PITA. So glad it's done and I likely won't have to mess with it again before the van dies. 172k miles and counting.

Thanks guys for all of your help and advice.

[12Ounce]

Glad it's all good now!

I remember the original bolts being black, the later improved ones that I have been using are green ... I don't know about blue ones.